2001 Public Hearing Transcripts

July 12, 2001 REAPPORTIONMENT COMMITTEE 7:00 P.M.     PRESIDING CHAIRMAN: Representative Lyons   MEMBERS PRESENT:   SENATORS: Sullivan, DeLuca, Crisco, Cappiello   REPRESENTATIVES: Ward, Currey, O'Neill     REPRESENTATIVE LYONS: -- your district should be configured or what the areas of common interest that you believe represent either your community or yourself or your neighboring communities would be most gratified to hear about.   At this time, I would like to introduce the committee. I am Moira Lyons. I am the Speaker of the House for Connecticut.   To my right is Senator Lou DeLuca, who is the Minority Leader of the Senate.   Next to him is Senator Kevin Sullivan, who is the President Pro Tem of the Senate and sitting next to him is Senator Joe Crisco, who is the Chair of the Appropriations Committee for the Senate.   And to my left, is Melody Currey. Melody Currey is from the House of Representatives. She is one of my deputy speakers and next to her, is Representative Art O'Neill who is also representing the minority party from the House on this committee.   We appreciate all of you being here. As I said, it is very important for us to get your input. We have two more hearings, which will be on Tuesday in Hartford. They will be at 2:00 o'clock in the afternoon and then continued at 7:00 o'clock in the evening.   We have many people signed up to speak and because of that, in order to allow everyone to be heard and in order to allow the public to have input from what other folks are saying, we will have a time limit on what you are saying.   We would like to limit that time limit to three minutes. I realize that is brief, but we will take any public input that you have, any presentations you make, any papers that you would like to give us.    In the past, we have not needed to set a time limit, but looking at the long list that we have, we would like to be respectful to other people in the room who would like to be heard.   And with that, I would like to call the first speaker on the list who is Representative Peter Nystrom. Peter.   REP. PETER NYSTROM: Good evening. I'd like to welcome you all to the City of Norwich, and to this wonderfully renovated Council Chamber and I'd like to thank the wonderful turnout that is seated and standing behind me. It's a great turnout and I think it's reflective of the interests and concerns of those of us who live in the 2nd district.   We very much would like to be as we are when this process is over. We would like to be whole. I am here to ask you to keep the 2nd district intact. You must make changes, some population changes, but the second district must remain intact.   We are a district that has very rural character to it. We do not have the larger cities that exist in the State of Connecticut within our borders right now and I think to divide this district would do great harm, not only to the 2nd district, but to the other districts, as well.   I'm sure other people will talk about that, but I would like to raise my concern that I would not like to see the district divided, whether it's Hartford, as well as New Haven, if that's to be considered.    Very often we feel that we are the "other" Connecticut. Well, I don't believe in that. We are one Connecticut, but we are one district, the 2nd district and we are united in our purpose tonight to impress upon you the importance of remaining one district.   So, I would ask you to consider that, consider my brief comments. Again, I would like to thank all of you for attending. It's good to see all of you. I look forward to seeing you in a week, veto session, and I will remain myself to hear others speak, but thank you very much.   REP. LYONS: Thank you, sir. I appreciate your comments.   Next, we have on the list -- oh, I'm sorry. I apologize. Senator - Representative Nystrom, Senator Sullivan has a question for you.   SEN. SULLIVAN: First of all, if you're glad to see us after the long extra innings, then you are a masochist, Peter.   I want to just clarify. You said at one point you understand that because of population changes, there will have to be changes. And then you said keep the district intact.    Can you distinguish those two for me?   REP. PETER NYSTROM: Well, much like a House or Senate district, as numbers have changed and as populations have migrated, clearly the numbers that make up the 2nd district, I believe, have to grow. And in that respect, that's what I'm referring to.   And what that gives you the opportunity is to restore towns that were once in the 2nd district that were taken out. So actually, it's in that light that I'm referring.   SEN. SULLIVAN: So, your comment would be to extend the 2nd district, either -- well, to extend the 2nd district westerly at some series of points, but otherwise, not to make any changes within the 2nd district itself as it now stands?   REP. PETER NYSTROM: That is correct.   SEN. SULLIVAN: Would you have a preference as to where those extensions should be?   REP. PETER NYSTROM: I believe that a number of communities that are along the Connecticut river valley on the other side of the river, at one time, were in the 2nd district. If there was a preference, it probably would be towards that purpose.   SEN. SULLIVAN: Thank you.   REP. LYONS: Thank you, sir.   Deborah DeCristoforo, to be followed by Wayne Fraser.   DEBORAH DeCRISTOFORO: Good evening. My name is Deborah DeCristoforo. I'm representing the Association of Chambers of Commerce of Eastern Connecticut.   I'd like to read aloud a position paper that we put together, all of the eastern Connecticut Chambers of Commerce got together several months ago.   The Consortium of Eastern Connecticut Chambers of Commerce, representing over 5,600 employers, calls upon the region's state legislators to strongly support the preservation of Connecticut's 2nd Congressional District, expanding its boundaries only as necessary to accommodate the congressional redistricting plan.   The unique challenges facing small towns and cities in addressing issues such as job creation, economic development, education, health care, transportation, and social service delivery are often very difficult from the State's urban centers.   The communities of Eastern Connecticut need an advocate who can concisely and unequivocally represent our concerns It is vitally important that the 2nd Congressional District continue to serve the needs of Eastern Connecticut.   I have here a combined list of 64 names of our Board of Directors and signed position statements from several of our members.   REP. LYONS: Thank you. If you would like that into the staff, I'm sure they would be happy to receive it.  Thank you.   Wayne Fraser to be followed by Mark Leonard.   WAYNE FRASER: Okay. Thank you very much. I'm Wayne Fraser, First Selectman of East Lyme and I'm also the Chairman of the Southeastern Council of Governments.   I would like to just read a statement from the Council of Governments.   The Southeastern Council of Governments, representing 20 municipalities of southeastern Connecticut, wishes to go on record in support of the preservation of the Connecticut 2nd Congressional District.   The boundaries of this district should only be adjusted as needed to accommodate the statewide congressional redistricting plan. The current district's boundaries have served this region well over the years. The municipalities located at the eastern side of the State have much in common and are working to address many of the same issues and problems.   The challenges faced by the State's largest urban centers are very different from those that we see here in eastern Connecticut.   We believe that it is extremely important to the future of our region and all of eastern Connecticut in that the 2nd Congressional District remains intact.   We respectfully urge that the Reapportionment Committee and the members of the General Assembly consider the unique nature of this area of our State in determining the future of the five congressional districts.   The 20 chief elected officials of the towns in southeastern Connecticut would be more than willing to meet with you and to discuss this issue in more detail and at any time, our Council of Governments would be happy to call a meeting and do whatever is necessary.   We also feel that the expansion of the district, whatever boundaries have to be moved, should be done so that the representation is very similar in nature as to the rural areas and to the expansion, whether it's along the I-95 border or the Connecticut River border, so that we have the commonality of many of the same issues that we're dealing with in here, as we do support each other and we're a very close knit group in southeastern Connecticut.   And we thank you for coming here today and allowing us to speak.   Thank you.   REP. LYONS: Thank you very much.   Mark Leonard to be followed by Senator Peters.   MARK LEONARD: I have a statement to read and I also have two letters from persons who couldn't be here this evening.   Good evening, members of the Reapportionment Committee. Welcome to Norwich. My name is Mark Leonard, also representing the newly formed Association of Chambers of Commerce of Eastern Connecticut.   The Board of Directors of our chambers and its membership, in excess of 1,300 strong, have expressed a deep concern over the possible restructuring and/or elimination of the 2nd Congressional District.   The elimination of our district, while having it absorbed into other districts, could leave us with the most difficult position and with very little representation and the opportunity to address major issues and concerns that are unique to eastern Connecticut.   We stand united with the other chambers in our district and we urge you all to preserve the integrity of the 2nd district as best you can.   We wish you well in your deliberations.   I have a letter from Mr. William Spellman, Plant Manager of Phelps Dodge Copper Plant in Norwich, Connecticut.   "Dear Reapportionment Committee. Phelps Dodge is strongly opposed to the elimination of the 2nd district. We believe that the interests of the eastern Connecticut community can best be served by letting the district continue to stand alone and not by folding it into other districts."   I also have a statement from Mr. Harry Rousher from the Association of Chambers of Commerce.   "I'm here to oppose any potential change to the 2nd Congressional District unless it is to add additional numbers in order to adjust the district.   We are also a member of the Consortium of Chambers representing eastern Connecticut, which includes the Chambers of Commerce of Middlesex County, Willimantic, the northeast section of Connecticut, Plainfield, Mystic, and Tolland County.   This consortium of chambers represents an excess of 5,600 employers. The unique characteristics and challenges facing our region, which is comprised of small towns and cities, are much different than the urban centers of Connecticut, such as New Haven, Hartford, etcetera.   The issues of transportation, economic development, health care, social service, education, and a host of other issues need to be addressed. This region, with its rural characteristics, has much different needs."   We thank you for this opportunity and we hope you will consider everything during your deliberations.   Thank you.   REP. LYONS: Thank you very much.    Senator Peters to be followed by Shawn McNally. Prior to Senator Peters speaking, I would like to acknowledge some of the other legislators that have also joined us.   Representative Nancy DeMarinis, Representative Jamie Spallone, Representative Patrick Flaherty, Representative Linda Orange, Representative Andrea Stillman, Representative Gary Orefice, Representative Jack Malone, Representative Wade Hyslop, Senator Eileen Daily, and Senator Edith Prague.   It's very wonderful. I welcome you. You have -- and Senator Cook is here also. I'm sorry, I didn't see you, but it's Senator Cook. I'm sorry, I didn't' see you come in.   And I think you offer a very good representation for your district that so many legislators are here and interested in this process.   Senator Peters.   SEN. MELODIE PETERS: Thank you, Madam Chairman and welcome to eastern Connecticut. Welcome to Senator DeLuca, Senator Sullivan and the rest of the panel.   We are different in eastern Connecticut. We've always been treated rather differently, either in the State House or throughout the State because we have very different characteristics about eastern Connecticut that I know my colleagues have appreciated over the years and we've certainly supported -- or are appreciative of the support you've given us as leaders in the General Assembly.   I've been in this business going into my 10th year. Prior to that, about 12, 14 years ago, this district when through overwhelming changes with the defense industry leaving, and we had to, as an eastern part of the State, pull ourselves up by our boot straps, quite frankly, and meet in coalitions. We developed the Economic Development Coalition, of which the tourism industry and coalition spun out.   We were one of the first in the State to deal with the problems with medical insurance companies just picking up and walking away and leaving people uninsured.   We've dealt with a number of issues from closing the Sub Base or threats of closing the Sub Base to threats of closing down Electric Boat, dealing with the gaming issues that come along with the expansion of gambling in our State, and we have done this as a group of people committed to the eastern region.    I dare say, that there are not other parts of this State that can appreciate those issues, those collective issues, and that have the kind of relationships that have been built over the years from town-to-town throughout eastern Connecticut.  I don't envy your position in having to make this decision. I know the numbers dictate that some changes are going to have to be made and I would associate myself with the comments of other speakers tonight in saying that when you're looking at the 2nd district, please don't take away -- I know you may have to add, but please add to the character in recognizing the issues that we have been dealing with for over a decade and will continue to deal with, with the support of this State.   I thank you for the time you're putting into this and good luck with your deliberations.   REP. LYONS: Thank you very much.   Shawn McNally to be followed by Shawn Fisher.   SHAWN MCNALLY: Honorable committee members, thank you for the opportunity to testify this evening.   My name is Shawn McNally. I'm a resident of Deep River. I speak to you tonight as a lifelong resident of eastern Connecticut. I'm a former 2nd District Congressional staff person and a former elected official, having the honor of representing the citizens of Norwich and Sprague.   Tonight, I wish to direct my comments to congressional redistricting. I understand and appreciate the difficult task before you as you see to craft five congressional districts from six, but I must say, with all due respect, that any redistricting plan that breaks the current 2nd Congressional District would be drastic and wrong. It would divide numerous and important communities of interest in eastern Connecticut.   Moreover, because the 2nd District breakup would also drastically change the nature of the 1st and 3rd Congressional Districts, based in Hartford and New Haven, I believe the plan would dilute the strength of the African American vote significantly, significantly enough to warrant a court challenge under Section 2 of the Voting Rights Act.   I'd like to take a couple of minutes to elaborate or a minute to elaborate since I only have three minutes.   One of the primary communities of interest in eastern Connecticut is the county structure. Counties form the basis for all kinds of professional, social, and support organizations and it - the district is made up, primarily, by Middlesex, New London, Tolland, and Windham Counties. Respecting the importance of the county structure to the fabric of eastern Connecticut, I would respectfully ask the committee to consider making Middlesex and Tolland Counties whole in the redistricting plan, that includes the 2nd district, that would bring in Clinton, Killingworth, Portland, and Somers into the 2nd District. Parts of Clinton, Portland and Somers have been part of the 2nd District for many years, prior to the 1990 reapportionment.   There are important things of interest I wish to touch on. First, business and commerce. You heard comments from the Chamber of Commerce of Eastern Connecticut. You'll hear other business people tonight. This is an important community of interest that I'd ask you take note of.   For the religious issues, there's a shared community of interest. For example, there's a Jewish Federation of Eastern Connecticut and the Roman Catholic Diocese of Norwich, made up of 65 parishes which covers almost all of the 2nd District, along with Fisher's Island, New York.   I would argue, these communities of interest are important in that they allow like minded citizens to organize and clearly represent their voice before elected officials.   To divide these communities would be to diminish their voice. And in diminishing the voice of eastern Connecticut's citizens, I believe we would also be diminishing the voice of Connecticut's minority voters, particularly greater Hartford's African American community.   I believe it would be very difficult for this committee to blend two districts with relatively high minority populations into a district with relatively high minority populations into a district with a relatively low minority population without effectively diluting the minority vote. And in doing so, the plan would be subject to challenge under the Voting Rights Act.   Protecting the voice of Connecticut's African American Latino voters should alone be enough to block any change in the 2nd District.   In conclusion, I would argue the 2nd District represents a strong and varied collection of community interests that should be preserved. To do otherwise, would not only diminish their voice, but would also harm other important voting constituencies, namely Connecticut's minority voters.   Thank you very much for your time.   REP. LYONS: Thank you, Shawn.   Shawn Fisher to be followed by Ernie Wetzel. I would also like to acknowledge that Representative Bob Ward, who is the Minority Leader of the House, has also joined us and I believe in the room with us also, is Representative Diana Urban.   Shawn. And I'm sorry. Senator Cappiello, also representing the minority from the Senate, has also joined us on the committee.   SHAWN FISHER: Good evening. My name is Shawn Fisher. And first, let me thank you for the opportunity for all of us to come together and let you know how we feel.   I think it's clear from the attendance in this room, that the 2nd District feels very strongly about this issue and you'll find out about how they feel when you hear from them individually.   But, some of the people, actually many of the people in this room know that I'm a candidate for the United States Congress here in the 2nd District, but I am not here in that capacity right now. I stand here as a citizen of the 2nd District.   And I am here to let you know that I've had the opportunity and the privilege to go to all the towns in the 2nd District to talk with the State Representatives, the State Senators, the First Selectmen, the members of town committees of both parties, people on Main Street, people at the shopping centers, and I can tell you that I am not here to speak about the details of the 2nd District. There are people who will be far more eloquent than myself about the importance of the historical continuity and the similar cultural aspects that the towns in the 2nd District share.   I'm here to report to you simply on what I've heard because as I've gone through the 2nd District, the one question -- I've heard many questions as everyone here knows, whose run as an elected representative, you get many questions. But the one question I was asked by absolutely every individual, without exception, was what's going to happen to the 2nd District? Are we going to lose our representation? And I want you to remember that one phrase because I think that it's important and it expresses a sentiment about how many people feel.   The 2nd District is different. Here in eastern Connecticut, we have kind of a fierce Connecticut Yankee individualism and independence that we feel is very important about all of this. But there's a difference between wanting to be independent and not wanting to be ignored.   And one of the previous speakers mentioned about the sense of this "other" Connecticut and I think that sentiment is very genuine. As I went around to people, one of the concerns was that they did feel, especially in issues of taxation and funding, that the 2nd District or eastern Connecticut, whether that impression is correct or not, often gets the short shrift.   And what I would like to have this board remember is simply two things. That when I talked to people, it was virtually unanimous in the sentiment that they wanted to retain the 2nd District in largely, it's current form.   I appreciate the fact that it does need to change, that it needs to be changed in some form, but I implore you to maintain the 2nd District in largely its current form as much as you can because the people here are virtually unanimous in their support of maintaining the current form.   The second thing that I'd like you to remember and think about is that there is this underlying feeling in eastern Connecticut that we are kind of the step-child and that removing the Congressional representation that we have, will leave many people feeling not that they have new representation, but that they've lost their representation.   The phrase I kept hearing was, are we going to lose our representation? And to kind of badly borrow from an old phrase that helped found our country, when you combine the sense that we haven't gotten our fair share of funding or taxation, this impression of whether we have or have not, combined with the lack of representation that we may lose, at least the impression is that the 2nd District will be left with taxation without congressional representation.   Thank you very much.   REP. LYONS: Thank you, sir.   Ernie Wetzel, to be followed by Michael -- I'm not sure if I'm saying it right - Paoe - P-A-O-E, I believe is the spelling.   ERNIE WETZEL: Good evening. My name is Ernie Wetzel. I'm the First Selectman of the Town of Woodstock. I'm here tonight with my fellow First Selectman from the Northeast Council of Governments and we have a statement we would like to have read to you by Brian Lynch from the Town of Thompson. Brian.   BRIAN LYNCH: Good evening, honorable members of the Reapportionment Committee. My name is Brian Lynch. I'm the First Selectman of the Town of Thompson.    I'm here tonight to present the position of the Northeastern Connecticut Council of Governments. Joining me are Dale Clark, First Selection Town of Sterling; Ernie Wetzel, First Selectman Town of Woodstock; Dave Patenaude, First Selectman Town of Pomfret; Richard Woodward, First Selectman Town of Eastford; and Neil A. Dupont, First Selectman of Canterbury.   We welcome you to eastern Connecticut and thank you for bringing your committee to this region to hear directly from the people of eastern Connecticut.   The Northeastern Council of Governments adopted the following position regarding redistricting on July 6, 2001. The Northeaster Connecticut Council of Governments strongly and without condition, supports the continuation of the fundamental makeup of the current 2nd Congressional District configuration.   The Northeastern Council of Governments is made up of ten towns that form the northeastern corner of Connecticut, Brooklyn, Canterbury, Eastford, Killingly, Plainfield, Pomfret, Putnam, Sterling, Thompson, and Woodstock.    The respective chief elected officials represent our member towns. Redistricting is very important to our region. This region is often referred as the "quiet corner", but more often than not, simply referred to as the "forgotten corner".   It is critical to our well being that we have congressional representation that has an understanding of our issues, needs, and history. It is our determination that we are best served by having eastern Connecticut remain united under one congressional district.   The media and those with purely partisan motivation continue to exploit the June 28, 2001 action by the Council of Governments. The Northeastern Council of Governments, under agenda item entitled, "Congressional District Discussion - What is in our Best Interest", took a position that was interpreted to mean that the Northeastern Council of Governments no longer favored the 2nd Congressional district configuration. This interpretation by the media was and is incorrect.   Our June 28th action was, in no way, motivated by party politics or the support or lack of support for individuals seeking congressional office. The media assertions that this action was political or a statement of dissatisfaction with Congressman Simmons is insulting and absolutely wrong.    Redistricting is not and should not be used as a referendum on performance, nor should it be a means of manipulation to further the particular interest on one particular party.   What did occur in eastern Connecticut between June 28th and July 6th and what it continues to simmer is an enormous response by organizations and every day citizens. They are adamant that we must remain the 2nd Congressional District in its basic format.   Few issues have generated this level and unity of response. It was not a partisan response, it was an eastern Connecticut response. We, the representatives of the ten towns of the northeastern corner of the 2nd District, have heard the collective outcry of our constituents and we fully support their views.   The members of the Northeastern Council of Governments realize that your committee's efforts will be second guessed as you work to reconfigure Connecticut into five voting districts. Yours is not an enviable task.   We only ask and are confident that you act to determine what is in the best interest of the community of Connecticut. In the end, that will be the best result.   Thank you for your consideration.   REP. LYONS: Thank you, sir. We appreciate your comments.   Sir, excuse me, sir. Before you leave, there's a question. If we may, a question from the committee. Senator Sullivan had a question for you, sir.   SEN. SULLIVAN: Thank you. Only because I too have learned not always to understand precisely from reading a newspaper what may or may not have happened, I am, nonetheless, curious to know how you would describe the purpose of the original vote that was taken and the language of the original vote that was taken.   BRIAN LYNCH: I think there was confusion, sir, because we had talked a number of times, just purely discussion. I was not at the meeting that day. Unfortunately, hard to believe, the only one I think I missed since I've been elected. Obligations to family was, unfortunately, on the top of the agenda.   I can't speak for what happened that day, but I know that we had talked several times and we were adamant that we wanted to the 2nd Congressional District stay the same. What transpired that day, I'm not sure how that happened. I think it was more just a - a vote was basically taken to say let's talk about this, let's bring people in and bring in Congressman Simmons, bring in our State Senators, Representatives to talk about what was going on. I think that was more the issue of the vote, let's vote to have discussions in more depth.   SEN. SULLIVAN: What was - just help me to understand. What was the actual resolution or item that was taken up?   BRIAN LYNCH: I wasn't there. I could ask our Chairman of The Council of Governments.   DALE CLARKE: Senator Sullivan, Dale Clark, Chairman of the Council of Governments.   The action was actually a discussion item that was on the agenda for a special meeting. And in the discussion, it was raised to a vote, it was moved to a question and seconded and voted upon.   It was felt that after that meeting, that it was not a proper vote and it was to be revisited.   SEN. SULLIVAN: What was the item?   DALE CLARKE: The item of-- the redistricting discussion we were on was redistricting and the taking a look at different areas and we felt that if it had to change, we took a look at the possibilities of different changes.    SEN. SULLIVAN: Would it be possible, just out of curiosity again, because I don't like to rely on what I read in the newspapers, if you could provide us with a copy of the first item voted, as well as the second item voted?   DALE CLARKE: Yes, we can.   SEN. SULLIVAN: I would appreciate it.   SEN. DELUCA: Madam Chairman, before they go.   REP. LYONS: Senator.   SEN. DELUCA: Thank you. Before you go, we had a hearing last night in Bridgeport and a gentleman spoke about both votes. And said the second was under political pressure. I would like to ask you the question, was there any political pressure brought to bear to make this change that you presented to us this evening?   DALE CLARKE: I would say no pressure came from the members of the Council.   SEN. DELUCA: Thank you very much.   REP. LYONS: Representative Ward.   REP. WARD: Just as a follow-up to make it clear. Is it unanimous amongst the members of your Council of Governments that regardless of what happened on June 28th or 29th, that as of July 6th and until this point, you believe the 2nd should remain essentially intact? Obviously, there would have to be some changes to comply with six going to five, but is that the unanimous position among the Council of Governments at this point?   DALE CLARKE: The vote was nine to one abstention, yes.   REP. WARD: Thank you.   REP. LYONS: Thank you, sir. We appreciate you're helping us out.   DALE CLARKE: Thank you.   REP. LYONS: Michael Paoe, if I'm saying that correctly, to be followed by Virginia Raymond.   MICHAEL PACE: Good evening. It's Michael Pace.    REP. LYONS: Thank you, sir.   MICHAEL PACE: Thank you. I'm First Selectman, Town of Old Saybrook.    The purpose of coming here tonight is, obviously, to speak to you about the 2nd District and while you go into deliberations as to how you would break six into five.   As you heard tonight, I believe, as well as many others, that the 2nd District, as it now is, can and should be expanded to include the lower Connecticut valley towns of Middlesex County, together along with the towns along the coastline. We share an economic interest, a social interest, which translates into a political interest and the purpose of having representation down in Washington is to see that the residents of this state, fairly and equitably do have representation for their needs, for the way their life style is, the equality of life and also, the environmental issues that will be and are facing eastern Connecticut.   The State, in its wisdom, and I say that respectfully, is putting together transportation districts to be reviewed to see how we get smart growth and the 2nd District, along with Old Saybrook, shares the commonality of the Route 95 corridor, as well as the Route 9 corridor.   We share a common interest in the lower valley of the protection of the Connecticut River. Old Saybrook, being at the mouth of the Sound, has a particular responsibility in that area.    We believe, the Town of Old Saybrook and I believe the towns that are currently in our district, believe that you should really consider, if you will, the diagram of the (inaudible) diagram of coming in and including back those areas that were once part of the 2nd District and bring them back in and making this 2nd District more representative of the needs of the social interests, the economic interests and the environmental interests of the people of this end of the State and not divide it up for other purposes, which would be purely political.   Thank you.   REP. LYONS: Thank you very much, sir.   Tim Griswold to be followed by Senator Cathy Cook.   VIRGINIA RAYMOND: (inaudible-not speaking into a microphone.)   REP. LYONS: Oh, I apologize, you're absolutely right. Got to watch me.    VIRGINIA RAYMOND: I got here early to sign up early.   Thank you so much for coming to eastern Connecticut and giving us the opportunity to speak with you this evening.   I have written testimony and it is not my intention to read it completely and I'll just submit it to your clerk.   But to summarize my primary point in this and I think what people collectively are here this evening to impress upon you, is that it had been suggested a couple of times in various articles about this whole issue, that there could be a possibility that the 2nd Congressional District be split in half, east to west, taking the northern part of the district and connecting to what is now the 1st Congressional District and then taking the southern part of the 2nd Congressional District and joining it with the 3rd, primarily, the New Haven district.   And I just want to make it clear because what I think we are here, pretty much unanimously, this evening to oppose is that kind of idea. We understand we're going to have to change, the population has changed, and that we may well have to grow, but we hope that growth is taken from a northerly to southerly route along the Connecticut River or along the shoreline.   Attached to my written testimony is a map and I would just respectfully suggest that as a starting point, we use the committee in looking at redistricting is to simply go back to what was done in April of 1964 during this special session when you created the 6th Congressional District, when we went from five to six and simply, as a starting point, reverse yourself. Go back to the five districts, as your starting point, and this is that map, and simply plug in your populations for each of the towns and then just move towns along the borders, as they existed back in 1964.   So, that would be my suggestion to you because I think you're probably looking for ways you might approach this problem rather than just us standing here this evening saying don't change us, but we know we're going to have to change and this would be my suggestion as how we go about doing that.   REP. LYONS: Thank you very much. We appreciate it. Virginia, I'm sorry. Senator Sullivan has a question for you. Thank you.   SEN. SULLIVAN: I think I got a look at the map. If you could just hold it up one more time.    VIRGINIA RAYMOND: You may have a copy, if you would want.   SEN. SULLIVAN: Would you suppose that if you lived in the current 5th Congressional District, you might be concerned about having that district divided into, as this proposal does? Is there a difference between dividing the 2nd and dividing the 5th?   VIRGINIA RAYMOND: I suppose from their perspective, no. Other than the fact that I think, with the exception of just the northern part of the 5th Congressional District, you do have a more urban area. You do have a more populous area, I think their shoreline communities, primarily.   I suspect that they're going to have strong sentiment, as well, because in the northern part of the district they do have some rural communities, as well.    I guess I'm looking at this more from a perspective of it essentially puts us back to where we were as far back as 1837 when we first came up with districts. I mean, prior to that, we had all congressman at-large for that, but then we devised the district system in 1837 and essentially this is how the State has been for 164 years until the change took place in 1964.    So, I think, essentially, this really has more tradition to it than any other thing that we could possibly do.   SEN. SULLIVAN: I don't ask the question to diminish the advocacy here or to even suggest that that's an alternative, only to point out that as we have discovered going around the State already, --   VIRGINIA RAYMOND: Oh, I'm sure.   SEN. SULLIVAN: -- the strength of feeling on the unity and consistency of the existing congressional districts is consistent throughout Connecticut.   VIRGINIA RAYMOND: I'm sure.   SEN. SULLIVAN: The only problem is five is a little different than six.    VIRGINIA RAYMOND: I think the one -- the district that would be most pleased in this configuration, would be probably be the 3rd. The only single change that would probably be made is just taking Milford out.  SEN. SULLIVAN: Thank you.   REP. LYONS: Thank you very much.   Tim Griswold, please sir. And then as I said, Senator Cook and then Jim O'Boyle.   TIM GRISWOLD: Good day. I'm Tim Griswold, First Selectman of Old Lyme, at the mouth of the Connecticut River and we bring you tidings.   Old Lyme is a small town, 7,500 people and we have a long distinguished history, as does the district. We have a lot in common with other small towns and I would like to make a comment that we participate in the lower Connecticut Valley Selectmen's Association, which is a nine-town group and also, the Lower Connecticut Valley Council of Elected Officials, which is a 17-town group and that reaches up the Connecticut River on both sides, many of which, are not in the 2nd.   As to the point of adding towns to our area, I think we have a lot in common now with these towns and I think it would make great sense to incorporate those into our district.   The 2nd District, as has been earlier stated, has come through a lot of tremulous times. I remember when we had a bond issue a few years ago, we didn't get the highest rating we could because of the state of the 2nd Congressional District and we all put our shoulders to the wheel and we corrected that situation and I think right now, with Pfizer and other things going on in the district, we have a very vibrant district and we're very proud of it. And to divide it up at this point, would be a travesty after all of this hard work.   I really think that we have a unique bond within the district and I think that we do not share the values and the problems of the more urban areas and I beseech you to consider that as we continue this long 164 year tradition.   Thank you.   REP. LYONS: Thank you, sir, for your comments.   Senator Cook to be followed by Jim O'Boyle.   SEN. CATHY COOK: Good evening, friends and colleagues. Welcome to eastern Connecticut. I will not take much time because I have different opportunities to be able to talk with you personally, but I will tell you that the 2nd Congressional District is unique. We are farmers and we are fishermen, and we are hosts to Connecticut.   Sixty-six to seventy percent of the people from outside our state who come to visit Connecticut, come to the 2nd Congressional District. They come to Mystic and they come to the northeast corner and they come to our history and our gaming, all of the tourists and guests. We are the host to this state. And therefore, we share an infinity about what those questions mean and what it means to live in a tourist community and what it means to try to support our economy through that kind of service base.   We are not urban. We do have some communities that are stressed with some of the pressures of urbanism, but we certainly provide a collective support and assistance across all of our towns to help our more concentrated populated areas, as Norwich, New London, and Middletown and others.   But I think that we need to remember that eastern Connecticut serves our state in a very important way.   One of the things that Senator Peters discussed with you was the threat that we had as a state to the concept of losing the submarine base and having it closed. That would have been a tremendous blow to the State's economy, not just to eastern Connecticut's economy.   With the concurrent threat of losing Electric Boat, of not having sea going submarines built, we were going to lose a tremendous amount of contracting that was a very important part of the State's economy.   New London County, twelve years ago, was the most defense dependent county in the country. We had over $9,500 per person in defense contracts in this State in that one county.   The next most defense dependent county was Dallas/Fort Worth when they were building the accelerator a $2,500 per person in the county.   So, you can see that the impact on the State's economy was the impact on eastern Connecticut with the treat of losing both the sub base, Underwater Sound Lab and the Sea Wolf, and perhaps, Electric Boat.   That crisis brought us together in a way that I don't think any other region of the State has ever come together to advocate for our families and for our State's economy.   I do not wish our state to lose that very important congressional vote in Washington that could be jeopardized by diluting that important aspect of what is represented by Connecticut's economy in the 2nd Congressional District.   The people and the voters of this district worked very hard to make sure that its congressman sits on the committees that are important to represent the people of this district. And indeed, we have a congressman who sits on very important committees, making very important votes. And Representative Larson and Representative Maloney also sit on the Arms Services Committee, but three votes in Congress are much more important than two when it comes to making sure that Connecticut gets the kind of defense contracting that we can support our economy with and that are part of the genius of Connecticut that we have established, particularly in eastern Connecticut.   So for all the other reasons, because we care about the land, because we care about the sea, because we are host to the State, those are important.   But please consider, also, the impact on Connecticut's economy if we lose that particular congressional vote when it comes to some of the important matters for Connecticut's economy that are decided in Washington.   Thank you.   REP. LYONS: Thank you very much.   James O'Boyle, to be followed by Representative Spallone.   JAMES O'BOYLE: Good evening. My name is Jim O'Boyle and I'm the Legislative Committee Chairman of the Mystic Chamber of Commerce. I have a statement I would like to read and I have copies available for the committee.   The Mystic Chamber of Commerce is a non-partisan community organization representing over 500 businesses in southeastern Connecticut. Our Board of Directors, on behalf of those members, strongly urges our legislators to support a congressional redistricting plan that will preserve the boundaries of Connecticut's 2nd Congressional District.   The concerns and challenges of southeastern Connecticut are far different than those of all other Connecticut congressional districts which include larger cities. The economy of the 2nd Congressional District is particularly dependent on tourism and gaming and unlike other Connecticut towns, it suffers from the extreme labor shortage with an unemployment rate that is lower than the State's and national average.   It faces the challenge of attracting new people here and diversifying the economic base. The 2nd Congressional District is distinctly vulnerable and vastly unlike Connecticut's growing urban centers. The district needs to maintain a balance within the economy with local and statewide transportation concerns and diversification of our resources and industries.   It also needs particular attention paid to environmental issues, as it increasingly becomes internationally known as a marine science industry leader.   It needs an advocate who can unequivocally understand its needs and represent its concerns.    The Mystic Chamber of Commerce hopes you will wisely keep the 2nd Congressional District intact.   Thank you.   REP. LYONS: Thank you, sir.    Representative Spallone, to be followed by Wini Olson.   REP. JAMES SPALLONE: Thank you, Madam Chairman. Good evening, members of the Reapportionment Committee. It's good to see you all here tonight. Thank you for the opportunity to discuss the reapportionment plan for the State of Connecticut. I appreciate it.   As you know, my name is James Spallone. I represent the 36th District in the State House of Representatives. That includes Deep River, Essex, Chester, Lyme, and Old Saybrook. All of those towns are in the 2nd Congressional District. And while we are from the western part of the district, we certainly feel very much a part of the 2nd Congressional District. And in fact, Chester Boyles of Essex, who lived about a mile from where I do now, represented the 2nd District before joining the Kennedy administration.   I did submit written testimony to the committee and rather that read that and repeat it now, I will simply expand on a small portion of it, which is addressed to the issue of politics and campaigns within the district, briefly.   But first I would want to say that I want to add my voice to the chorus of those voices asking you to preserve the district as intact as possible.   When somebody runs for Congress in the 2nd Congressional District, by necessity, they must seek support in all of the towns. It's hard work for the candidates, certainly, but good for the voters and its grass roots campaigns are absolutely required here in this part of the State.   They can't rely on support from a party organization in one big city or its surrounding suburbs to get the nomination or to win the election. They have to visit 54 diverse towns and cities to gain support.    This makes, I believe, for a good government, for health democracy, and for good representation for a collection of generally small towns and cities whose voice can be heard collectively despite their size.   For these reasons, and for those in my written testimony, I urge, as I said before, I urge the committee to try and keep the district as intact as possible when making your difficult choices this summer and fall.   Thank you again for your time. If you have any questions, I'd be happy to address them. Otherwise, I'll rest in that testimony   REP. LYONS: Thank you, sir, for your comments.   Wini Olson, to be followed by Dave Patenaude.   WINI OLSON: Unless they're represented jointly, small towns are very, very easy to ignore.    The 54 towns of eastern Connecticut, represented in the 2nd District, are almost one-third of the towns and cities of the State. Geographically, it's almost that size. And yet, where there are six districts, and eight members of this committee, unfortunately there is no representative of those particular towns on the committee that is to decide how the State is to be realigned.   We're all being very partisan in saying the 2nd Congressional District is important. It should be augmented rather than dissected. We hope that you're all broad minded enough not to be as partisan as we are and to look to your neighbors and realize that we're so tiny that we have to be united.    Thank you.   REP. LYONS: Thank you very much.   Dave Patenaude.   DAVE PATENAUDE: Ladies and gentlemen of the committee, good evening. My name is Dave Patenaude. I'm First Selectman of the Town of Pomfret, standing with Representative Jeff Davis, who is also the Chairman of the Pomfret Democratic Town Committee. I'd like to read a letter signed by Jeff, as well as by the acting chairperson of the Pomfret Republican Town Committee, Kate MacKenzie.   "Dear Committee Members: The Pomfret Democratic and Republican Town Committees are united in our concern over the possible dismemberment of the 2nd Congressional District. We are writing this letter to clearly state our opposition to any plan, which would divide a district, which more than other in Connecticut, represents a geographic area with a unique identity.   By joining together and writing this letter, we are emphasizing the non-partisan nature of our concerns. Regardless of the party affiliation of the incumbent Congressman, we feel that the maintenance of the 2nd Congressional District is vitally important.   We respectfully suggest that the Reapportionment Committee seek other options to resolve its constitutional mandate. There can be little question that the common needs of the towns of the 2nd District are significantly different than those of Hartford and New Haven. Including our town in those districts would create a situation in which rural and urban populations would necessarily would be competing for representation.   The different and equally valid needs of each area would suffer for lack of a cohesive voice. We feel that a host of issues, including land preservation, conservation, economic development, taxation, transportation, social services, and Indian tribal issues, are eastern Connecticut issues requiring eastern Connecticut representation in Congress.   We understand that both Councils of Government, as well as both Chambers of Commerce in the district, as well as the local newspapers, have taken public positions in support of the preservation of the 2nd District.   We trust that you will listen carefully to all our voices."   Thank you.   REP. LYONS: Thank you very much. Nicholas Mullane to be followed by Neil Dupont.   NICHOLAS MULLANE: Good evening.    REP. LYONS: Alright, thank you. Please proceed, sir.   NICHOLAS MULLANE: Good evening. My name is Nicholas Mullane. I'm the First Selectman of the Town of North Stonington.   Thank you for holding this hearing. I want to thank Norwich for hosting it. I'm going to speak for a couple of towns tonight.    Bob Cogdon, the First Selectman of Preston, could not attend because he had a public hearing.   I would like to express my opposition to changes of the Democratic character of the 2nd Congressional District. The 2nd District covers a large area consisting mostly of rural communities. It is important to keep this general makeup so as to not dilute the voice of the rural constituency.   Wes Johnson, the Mayor of Ledyard, the could not make it also.    The reality is that the many small towns in the district share some of the problems, as even do the small cities that are contained within it also.   The district of small urban, suburban and rural areas will not benefit by being joined with Hartford or New Haven. In fact, the Congressmen of both those districts, have been quoted in the newspaper as not being interested with having our part of the State added to their districts.   As a member of the South Eastern Connecticut Region, I see no benefit by being part of New Haven.    Again, please leave the 2nd District intact. Thank you for this opportunity.   I'd also like to speak on my own behalf and just reiterate their words. I'd like to say that I'm sorry that we're here tonight because we're going to lose a Congressman. We're going to lose one of our voices. The amount of work for Connecticut is not going to go away. Connecticut is a wonderful place to live and to work. We all have the job to get the population, one, to stay to here, and two, get others to move back in.   That's the town and the state job. We probably have work for two or three more congressmen. And we're going to lose the voice, which is a problem.   You're hearing everybody talking about the problem. Let me try and give you a solution.   I would recommend that you go to every one of the towns on the western side of the border of the 2nd District. Interview them individually, see if they wouldn't feel more compatible in being with the 2nd District. You may get a solution for this end of the State.   There maybe some volunteers, people that will feel that they are more common to the 2nd District. I don't envy your job and I don't like losing a congressman.   I want to thank you for this opportunity to speak and I hope you keep the 2nd District together.   Thank you.   REP. LYONS: Thank you, sir.   Richard Abele, to be followed by Norman Primus and then Roger Adams.   RICHARD ABELE: Good evening. My name is Richard Abele, the City Council President and chief elected official of the City of Norwich.    Madam Chairman and honorable members of the Reapportionment Committee, and all state legislators, State Representatives, local officials, I want to welcome you to the City of Norwich tonight and tell you that I'm quite impressed with the turnout and simply to read a letter that I already sent to the Reapportionment Committee, but I would like to just read it for the record and make a couple of brief comments.   I will skip the first line, but, "It is my hope that as your committee engages in the process of redistricting, you will leave the integrity of the 2nd District intact.   As you are no doubt aware, since the turn of the century, the 2nd District has been almost the same size and shape. It has historically run along the Massachusetts and Rhode Island borders and along Long Island Sound.   Eastern Connecticut has its own unique character, largely rural with small communities. We do not have any cities the size of Hartford or New Haven. Our district will be around longer than any individual elected official.   It is my sincere hope that the redistricting process will take into account the character of eastern Connecticut.   I urge you and your colleagues to redraw the lines without any consideration to any member of the Connecticut congressional delegation and without regard to their political affiliation or seniority.   What is at stake is not party membership, but the people of eastern Connecticut and the need for them to preserve their congressional voice.   It is imperative that the residents of eastern Connecticut continue to have their representation in Congress. Should our district be divided and attached to large distance cities, like Hartford and New Haven, it is obvious that the voices of communities like Putnam, Stonington, Plainfield, and Norwich will be diluted by those urban centers.   I am certain that the committee members are aware of this situation and I thank them for the opportunity to share my concerns with them and their colleagues."   I would also like to make mention of the fact that as the retired police chief here in the City of Norwich, and a member of the Norwich Police Department for over 36 years, that besides the problems that we had with the possible closing of the sub base and with the defense industry dwindling down in size, and all of the tourism and all of those things, from a police point of view, and you must know in the areas where you live, the police have regional organizations. And this part of the State is the Eastern Regional Law Enforcement Council and police departments from Putnam to Old Saybrook belong to this.   We have regional impact or not regional -- in fact, we have regional mutual aid agreements in place and we have many things that are uniquely combined here in the State, both police, fire, civil preparedness and all those issues. And I think it would be a dis-service.   And one last comment regarding being non-partisan in this. I'd like to point out that regardless of who our Congressman was, democratic or republican, they maintain the same office building, they kept the same office, and the people know exactly where to go to see their Congressman. Regardless of whose in office, we'd like to keep that place intact.   Thank you very much.   REP. LYONS: Thank you, sir.   Norman Primus to be followed by Roger Adams.   NORMAN PRIMUS: Did I hear Norman Primus called?   REP. LYONS: Yes, you did.   NORMAN PRIMUS: Thank you very much. Very nice seeing you all again.    Members of the Reapportionment Committee, I take pleasure in inviting you to New London, to stop by on your way home.    My name is Norman S. Primus and I reside in New London, Connecticut. This evening, I want to present to you a different perspective of districting. Notwithstanding the sense of nature of this perception, I feel comfortable discussing it with you and with the members of my compatriots here tonight because of the cordial and good grace displayed by everyone in the previous three hearings.   In my opinion, there are two outstanding issues put forth by the 63 presenters during the three previous hearings. One was called for a fair, open districting with participation of the people. And two, there was a call for maintaining the empowerment of any and all groups, which have secured some degree of success in the political arena who do not want a districting plan as it unfairly reduces their hard fought gains. And then there are those who feel that they have been left out of the political arena.   They ask for districting plans that do not oppress them further and they also asked for plans that enhance their ability to gain recognition.   The overwhelming number of speakers call for empowerment. They call for representation and call for recognition. Their calls are valid. Their calls are a twin edged sword, as we all know.   When districting plans is deliberately drawn to enhance one group, the cause and effect of such an action would bring about a diminished status for another group.   I recommend to this committee that no political, racial, religious, or any criteria be utilized in districting, which gives me any greater political advantage over my fellow Americans.   We here are gathered and acknowledge that we are equal and we should all make recommendations to the Reapportionment Committee of that fact.   John Kennedy said, "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what we can do for our country."   Let's get districting right and fair.   I would like to also advise, Senator, that you asked for a copy of my districting kit yesterday. I had to put in an update for you. I'll deliver it now.   I also want to advise the audience, I have districting kits which will allow anyone to draw Congressional, House or State set of districts. If anyone is interested, and would like to do the work, I have - I'll be around.   Thank you very much.   REP. LYONS: Thank you, sir.   Roger Adams.   ROGER ADAMS: Good evening. My name is Roger Adams. I'm a resident of Mansfield and I'm the Executive Director of the Windham Region Chamber of Commerce.   Our chamber is an organization of over 400 member businesses, institutions, and professionals in the ten-town Windham region. Along with the other chambers of commerce in the 2nd District, we recommend that the district's borders be adjusted on the western edge to allow the addition of several properly suited small towns with adequate population to allow the district to remain as close as possible to its current configuration.   We're a district with over 100 years of history and roughly the same shape we're in today. We're an area with no dominant urban centers to draw the focus away from our numerous small and medium sized cities and towns.   Our population centers in New London/Groton and in Middletown identify much more closely with their district neighbors than with any of the State's larger urban areas.   As a region of cooperating smaller communities, we recognize we can better address the challenges involving human service delivery, education, transportation, economic development, and health care if our needs are not placed secondary to those of a major urban center.   Although the redistricting process is intended to be outside the political arena, reality may make the results of redistricting political if lines are drawn dissecting the present 2nd District.    If a Hartford or a New Haven hospital wants the same piece of diagnostic equipment, as a Windham Hospital, a Day Kimble or a Johnson Memorial, we all know the urban center hospitals's needs will be addressed first.   Our 2nd District communities need an advocated dedicated to our interests. Our local elected officials, our councils of governments, and our business associations appreciate the difficulty of your task. We also confident that you'll see the merit in our arguments.    Thanks for the opportunity to comment here this evening.   REP. LYONS: Thank you, sir. We appreciate it.   I'm sorry, I can't read your signature. It would be the Town Councilor for the Town of Ledyard, Susan - I apologize, I can't make out your last name.   Is Susan here? And Susan would be followed by Barbara Buddington.   SUSAN MENDENHALL: That's alright. I didn't do well in penmanship in school.   I'm Susan Mendenhall and I'm with the Town Council in the Town of Ledyard.   I can't really add to much to what people have said about the 2nd Congressional, but I would like to say please don't split us up.    If you do, we, as small towns, will lose our representation because it is very much a known fact that elected officials pay much more attention to highly populated voting areas than they do to small towns.   Now, I would like to address the 42nd legislative district.   Presently, the district is split. The Town of Ledyard is one side of the Thames River and it takes in a small section of the Town of Montville on the other side of the river.    Our interests are on our side on the river. It matches up demographically and economically. For example, Preston, Ledyard, and Lisbon. That would also meet the population requirements.   Give us a State Representative that takes in an entire town so that elected officials will work together and not split allegiance between political parties. For example, if you have a mayor whose a democrat and you have a -- the town is split in half between a republican Representative and a democratic Representative, whether you like it or not, as Tip O'Neill says, "All politics is local." And the idea is to give representation.   I'm constantly hearing in Hartford, bipartisanship. And yet, redistricting is one of the most political aspects of our political process. If we are truly practicing what we preach in bipartisanship, I ask this committee to consider the needs of small towns and let us be provided with representation, both in Washington and Hartford, that will represent our needs and our interests first and foremost.   Thank you.   REP. LYONS: Thank you very much.    Barbara Buddington. Barbara Buddington, to be followed by Jane Dauphinais.   BARBARA BUDDINGTON: Thank you. My name is Barbara Buddington and I am the Executive Director of the Windham Region Council of Governments in the heart of eastern Connecticut.   I do have a written statement, which I will leave with you, but I'm not going to read it. Everything that I have said in my written statement has been said before.   So I will simply tell you that the Windham Region Council of Governments took action at its June meeting to wholeheartedly support, to the extent possible, keeping the 2nd Congressional District intact, adding on similar towns that are similar in character to the extent possible and would oppose any north/south division of the district.   Everyone has said everything before. So I will just leave it at that and you will be hearing from one of our First Selectmen a little bit later.   Thank you.   REP. LYONS: Thank you very much.   Jane to be followed by Francis Corden.   JANE DAUPHINAIS: Hello. Welcome to Norwich and eastern Connecticut. I'm the District Director for the current Congressman, Congressman Rob Simmons and I'd like to read a statement from him.    He very much wanted to be here tonight and is, in fact, enroute. I hope that you're allowing me to read this statement won't preclude giving him a few minutes at the microphone, should he walk in before you conclude.   "There is no more important an issue facing eastern Connecticut than redistricting. Whatever the new configuration of our 2nd District will be, it will have a profound impact on our issues and on our ability to articulate those issues.   As a resident and a voter in eastern Connecticut, I welcome the opportunity to share my thoughts at the public podium.   The 2nd District has been basically in the same configuration for more than 150 years. Our district stretches from Massachusetts, along the Rhode Island border, to Long Island Sound, and west to the Connecticut River.    It includes mostly small, rural eastern Connecticut communities that share many similarities. Given this reality, the Chambers of Commerce throughout the 2nd District, have formed the Consortium of Eastern Connecticut Chambers of Commerce and have called upon the region's state legislators to support the 2nd District, altering the boundaries, only as needed, to accommodate the redistricting plan.   The chambers have said, "the unique challenges facing small towns and cities in addressing issues such as job creation, economic development, education, health care, transportation, and social service delivery are often very different from the State's urban centers." I agree with their assessment.   Saving the 2nd District is about common sense, not political expedience. Whatever the result of redistricting, the new map that is drawn will be with us much longer than any of the State's current congressional delegation, myself included.   The 2nd District seat belongs to the people and redistricting should be carried out with their needs in mind, not the advantages or disadvantages that might fall to any individual member of the delegation.   Our geographic, economic, ecological communities of interest demand the preservation of the 2nd District.    Our region comprises a unique ecological zone. The USDA, in fact, recently re-evaluated their regions in Connecticut and identified eastern Connecticut as the Thames River Valley Basin.   In addition, eastern Connecticut is home to the Quinnepaug Shetucket heritage corridor, known as the last green valley.   Interstate 395 runs north and south in the 2nd District. As population and businesses continue to grow along that corridor, it will be further cement the connection between the northern and the southern portion of the district and demand more regional answers and interaction.   The logical solution to the redistricting of the 2nd District is to let history be our guide. Prior to 1964, which was when Connecticut went from five congressional districts to six, a number of towns along the district's western border were part of the 2nd District."   REP. LYONS: I'm sorry to interrupt you, but if you could might summarize and then we'd be happy to receive the testimony.   JANE DAUPHINAIS: Very good.   REP. LYONS: Thank you very much.   JANE DAUPHINAIS: "By having those communities rejoin the 2nd District, we can meet the population needs of redistricting.   The voters of eastern Connecticut need to be able to elect a congressional representative who understands our circumstances and who will advocate for our needs. Whoever that representative may be and whatever political party he or she maybe affiliated with, it is in the interest of all the residents of eastern Connecticut to save the 2nd."   Thank you.   REP. LYONS: Thank you very much.   Francis, to be followed by Senator Edith Prague. Francis Corden to be followed by Senator Prague.   FRANCIS CORDEN: Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. My name is Frank Corden. I'm a resident of Woodstock. So compared to most of the folks here, I've travelled about as far as you can to get to this meeting.   I would like to thank you for the opportunity to speak on the reapportionment issue. I'm here as an advocate for the maintenance of the 2nd Congressional District.   Many of the problems affecting eastern Connecticut are consistent with those affecting urban areas that are being considered for inclusion with Windham and New London Counties. Issues such as poor education performance, teen pregnancy, poverty, and economic development don't recognize political boundaries.    However, we must recognize that the root causes and solutions to those problems often do follow cultural boundaries, such as those represented by the 2nd Congressional District.   The poor and at risk in eastern Connecticut are often not minorities, are geographically separated, and are frequently elderly. Unlike urban areas, program funding must include support for individual attention and the transportation funding to deal with the isolation that the at risk feel in our area.   We, in eastern Connecticut, must have a champion in Washington that understands these points.   Almost 60 years ago, my grandfathered travelled down Route 12 to Electric Boat to build submarines in support of World War II. Today, many of my friends and neighbors travel I-39 to manufacturing jobs in New London and Norwich. In the absence of a strong east-west transportation route to Hartford, economic development in eastern Connecticut continues to be linked by this north-south route to places like EB, Pfizer, and the existing casinos.   Economic development funding, which is sorely needed throughout the State, that emphasizes the urban areas of Hartford and New Haven, is not likely to help those of us in Putnam, Killingly, and Plainfield.   Casinos are a serious problem for southeastern Connecticut and with the potential for casinos in Thompson and Union, a possible future issue for northeastern Connecticut, would the urban centers benefitting from the casino revenue, would a representative elected from the urban centers be likely to step forward, such as Representative Simmons has, to address the land disputes that have occurred, as well as address the disparate dispensation of revenues that we have seen?   Keep in mind that, as stated before, the 2nd Congressional District is joined by the requirements of agricultural support, open space preservation, housing and transportation for the poor and elderly, school funding, and an over reliance on residential property taxes. All are issues that are common to our communities and that are foreign to the urban centers.   In addition to the longstanding practice of relying on the traditional historical boundaries for identifying a district, I encourage you to consider those factors that effect the future of our communities and the solutions to the problems and help keep the character of the Congressional District, the 2nd, intact.   Thank you very much.   REP. LYONS: Thank you, sir.   Senator Prague to be followed by Representative Jack Malone.   SEN. EDITH PRAGUE: Good evening, my colleagues. It's really very nice to see you and I want to thank you for coming to Norwich.   You really heard it all tonight from citizens, from chambers of commerce, from elected town officials, from legislators, the uniqueness of eastern Connecticut is really quite apparent. And the passion and the thoughtfulness that people have presented their information to you, certainly designates the fact that eastern Connecticut is a place that we want to keep intact, if at all possible.   You know, it's been said before tonight by several people, they don't envy your job and neither do I. By eastern Connecticut, hopefully, will not suffer the consequences of being divided.   We are different from the urban areas of the State. It is important that you respect that and that our needs are acknowledged by this very important committee.    So thank you again for coming here and for listening to all of us and I hope that you will take back with you the very significant facts that have been presented about the uniqueness of this area of the State.   Thank you.   REP. LYONS: Thank you, Senator.   Representative Malone. Representative Jack Malone to be followed by Representative Gary Orefice.   REP. JACK MALONE: Thank you, Madam Speaker. Once again, I'm following Senator Prague, but I don't mind that at all.   Thank you all for coming here this evening, coming to Norwich, the hub of eastern Connecticut.    I just want to tell you briefly, you will hear tonight very good comments on this topic. Someone had a very bad idea. Someone laid the suggestion out there that when there would be a congressional district have to be eliminated, that it would be the 2nd District. People floated that idea out there and it got in the newspaper. It's a bad idea. But what they didn't do is they didn't realize that it's your group that has to make the decision.   You've heard tonight from people who have come from Woodstock, up from Stonington and New London and Old Saybrook, the very reasons why this district is some important to us here.   We're thought as a community, from other parts of the State, sometimes in a derogatory fashion, they think of eastern Connecticut, but we feel that strength of community here in eastern Connecticut, it is not all rural. There are a number of things here that make us unique. We make the submarines here. We are host to the United States Coast Academy. Indeed, as has been mentioned, the only gaming industry in New England is here.   So, you will hear all of those arguments and I want you to take them home. I will say, because you are here, the leadership of the House and the Senate, Senator Sullivan and Senator DeLuca, Speaker Lyons and Representative Ward, I know you all have acted much, in my opinion, heroically in the manner in which you shore up the towns in Connecticut, the smaller towns. You acted remarkably well in this last legislation session. I will say heroically. I think you all did a great job for towns, particularly those in eastern Connecticut and I know after hearing the remarks of the residents of eastern Connecticut here tonight, that you'll act favorably and responsibly with their issues and their concerns.   That being said, I want to thank you all again for coming to the "Rose of New England". I hope you enjoyed your stay in this beautiful building, which was redone, just finished, I believe, just three years ago.   Thank you all. Thank you for your time and your attention and I welcome you to hear additional comments from the residents here of the district.   Thank you very much.   REP. LYONS: Thank you, Representative Malone.    Representative Gary Orefice, to be followed by Representative Patrick Flaherty.   Good evening.   REP. GARY OREFICE: Thank you. Welcome, committee members, to Norwich. I'll be very brief.   I came up tonight because I promised several of my constituents, who could not be here, that I would be here to make sure there was enough people in the room to get the point across that the 2nd Congressional District needs to stay intact.   And I would like to associate my remarks with every other speaker, every single speaker that spoke before representing a whole cross section of this district.   We are united and we are fervent in our desire to keep the 2nd District intact.   And I would also like to note, as several other speakers have, that if we have to expand the district, then moving down the coastline and up the Connecticut River valley or towns of like makeup, small, rural or suburban towns, would seem to be a good idea as to how to keep the homogeneity of the 2nd District with the small towns.   Thank you very much.   REP. LYONS: Thank you, sir.   Representative Patrick Flaherty to be followed by Representative Diana Urban.   REP. PATRICK FLAHERTY: Thank you, Madam Chairman and members of the Commission.   I have three points.   One, I certainly want to echo the comments of all the folks who are saying that the 2nd Congressional District should remain intact.    I won't repeat the points that were made. I think that many, many important points have already been said and I really do agree with almost, really with all of them.   Secondly, I would -- observe that I represent part of Vernon, part of Coventry, Columbia, and part of Lebanon. And I do believe that ten years ago the integrity of the town lines was not given as much weight as it might have been and I would hope that this time around, we could try to keep more towns intact.   The Town of Lebanon had to endeavor certain expense to create a second voting area for folks. The Town of Coventry is actually split in three ways in the sense that we have two State Senators and two State Representatives. Those lines do not coincide with each other and it has created some amount of confusion, certainly some tension within town hall, as they have tried to figure out how to do this. We are actually in technical violation of our town's charter because we have to vote in a way to line up with the district lines.   There were two mistakes, I think, that were made ten years ago that I would like to bring to your attention to hope that perhaps the type of thing that happened wouldn't happen again.   The first involves the Senate districts. The Town of Mansfield has two Senators. The Town of Coventry has two Senators. In fact, if you had taken the portion of the Town of Mansfield that is in the 19th and moved it over to Coventry, Coventry would all have been in the 19th. Mansfield would still be divided between two districts, the 29th and the 35th. So they're being split. They're split anyway. Coventry would have been able to be intact, all within the 19th district. The numbers really would have worked if you had done that ten years ago or if we - I wasn't in the Legislature, but if the commission before you had done that ten years ago, I think it would have served Coventry better all within one Senate district.   On the House districts, back then there was Representative Fuscas from Marlborough, Representative Bogue from Columbia, neither of whom had represented any of the Town of Vernon. And when the portion of Vernon that was not going to be in the Rockville district was being split, it was done without any consultation with the local officials from the Town of Vernon. And certain streets were split in half in a way that was really unnecessary and where the numbers really could have worked if those lines had been done a little differently and where just simply consultation with the local officials would have prevented a lot of grief.   One example. I was campaigning in 1992 for the first time and I was at this woman's house. She needed oxygen and she had this elaborate system of tubes that she used to move around her home so she could continue to breathe.   When I knocked on her door and told her who I was, she literally broke down in tears and she said to me, "I am never going to vote again."   She happened to live right across the street from Lake Street School, the place where she had voted for 30, 40 years. She was now going to have to vote across I-84 because the House line went between my district, which is on one side of the street where she lived and Pam Sawyer's district where the people voted at Lake Street School.   That type of thing could have been avoided ten years ago. I hope it will be avoided this time.   Thank you.   REP. LYONS: Thank you, sir.    Representative Urban to be followed to Lori Pettetie, Pettletier. Pelletier.   REP. DIANA URBAN: Hi. I'd like to welcome the Redistricting Committee to eastern Connecticut and thank you for coming.   When I look at problems like this, I'm big fan of a 14th century philosopher whose name is William of Occum. And basically what his philosophy stated is that usually when all is said and done, the simplest answer is the best answer. And that is referred to as "Occum's Razor".   When I look at redistricting in the 2nd District, I can't help but think of Occum's Razor. The 2nd District has its own distinctive needs and characteristics.   By splitting it, many of the smaller towns will play subordinate roles to either Hartford or New Haven. Their commonality will be diluted.    Because numerous towns share a common need and characteristics, many times they will unite for a common voice.   If the district's splintered, I'm afraid those towns will lose that representation. I fear that their bargaining power will be diluted when attached to larger cities like Hartford or New Haven.   Redistricting puts the future of Connecticut at stake. I urge to carefully consider this decision and all its ramifications and in the end, do the simple thing, which I assure you will be the best thing and that is, keep the 2nd District intact.   Thank you for coming.   REP. LYONS: Thank you very much.   Lori Pelletier, to be followed by Wayne Cutler.   LORI PELLETIER: Good evening, members of the committee. My name is Lori Pelletier and I reside in Middletown. For those of you who don't know, Middletown is in the 2nd Congressional District.   I'm here to discuss the issue of redistricting for the State of Connecticut and this unfortunate situation where we have no other choice but to decrease our congressional delegation by one. We can take solace in that we have a unique opportunity to be strategic in this decision.   Given the loss of a representative, we must look at where our lack of numbers can be countered by our position within each party. And where we have leaders within committees and subcommittees.   It's ludicrous to think that with five delegates we can compete with states consisting of ten, twenty, or even more delegates. In a strictly number game, we would lose every time. But we don't.   Connecticut has been very successful in attaining and continually retaining a good amount of federal dollars coming our way.   Again, this is not because we boast a large number of Representatives, but because the ones we have, have carried something which makes up for the lack of numbers and that's seniority.   If we break down positions within each party, and then committees, we see that regardless of party affiliation, Connecticut's success is due, in large part, for our members' seniority in Washington.    For example, 3rd District Representative Rosa DeLauro is on the Appropriations Committee. She's the only member of the Connecticut delegation on that committee and she's the 5th ranking democrat in the House, the highest ranking democratic woman in the House.   Sixth District Representative Nancy Johnson is the 4th ranking member on the all important House Ways and Means Committee and was the first republican woman ever named to that committee. Additionally, she is the Chair of the Subcommittee on Health.   Fourth District Representative Chris Shays is a ranking member on the Government Reform Committee and shares a subcommittee on National Security, Veterans Affairs, and International Relations.   Fifth District Representative James Maloney is the most senior of the Connecticut delegation. On the Financial Services Committee and the Armed Services Committee.   First District Representative John Larson is on the Armed Services and the Science Committee.   Second Congressional District Representative Rob Simmons is the newest member of the delegation. He has been assigned to Transportation, Veterans Affairs, and is the least senior member of the Connecticut delegation on the Armed Services Committee behind Maloney and Larson.   Having lived in Middletown for nearly 20 years, I'm proud of the representation we've received in Washington. Realistically, however, this is not achieved solely because eastern Connecticut is such a wonderful place to live. It's achieved because our representatives' seniority in Washington.   So, with all this in mind, we have a choice to make. Do we deliberately weaken our competitive advantage by under-estimating the value of seniority or do we remain viable despite much larger states having more representation?   I say we should remain strong under the rules of the game in Washington, D.C., which is where this game is played. Re-distribute the current 2nd Congressional District to other more senior representatives, and keep Connecticut competitive and I thank you for your time this evening.   REP. LYONS: Thank you very much. William Cutler, -- would you please refrain from remarks. Everyone has a right to give their testimony. So we would appreciate respecting the individuals' opinions.   Thank you very much for your testimony.   LORI PELLETIER: Thank you.   REP. LYONS: Yes, Senator Cappiello.   SEN. CAPPIELLO: Thank you. I appreciate your testimony. I just have one question. Do you know where we rank in the percentage of tax dollars that we send to Washington, D.C. as opposed to how much we receive back?   LORI PELLETIER: No, I don't. I don't have that information, Senator.   SEN. CAPPIELLO: I was just curious because you did say that we send -- that we do very well at bringing dollars back to the State. So I didn't know if you had any information on that.   LORI PELLETIER: No, I don't. But just from living in Connecticut for 20 years, I grew up in New Hampshire and I moved to Connecticut to go to school and I stayed here because I love Connecticut and it is a great place to (inaudible). There was a lot going on and I lived in Middletown. I worked at Pratt and Whitney for 15 years and I lived through the devastation that happened in the mid 90's.   All I'm saying is this game is played in D.C. It's not played here in eastern Connecticut. It's played in Washington, D.C. and seniority matters.   SEN. CAPPIELLO: Thank you.   REP. LYONS: Thank you very much.    William Cutler. Oh, I'm sorry. I apologize.   Representative O'Neill.   REP. O'NEILL: Thank you. I was about to ask the same question. I actually know the answer which is that Connecticut ranks 50th out of the 50 states in terms of the sort of balance of payments between we send to Washington and what we get back. And I just read that yesterday or the day before in a publication that we, as legislators get from the National Conference of State Legislatures.   So, just in response to that question in terms of what we've so far accomplished by being the state we are, it's not necessarily anybody's fault in Congress that this works out because they have formulas to do this. I'm not sure the seniority necessarily plays a big role in how these formulas are written in terms of what we're going to get when you look at what we've been getting so far.   So I just thought I would let you know that.   LORI PELLETIER: Yeah. Currently we have less than 1% of the Representatives in the House. I mean, there's 435 Representatives, we have six. We have less than 1%. I tend to doubt that we would get less than 1% of the money spent.    Thank you.   REP. LYONS: Thank you very much. Oh, sorry. Lori, I believe Senator Sullivan has a question or a comment.   SEN. SULLIVAN: I think, Lori, we've all probably, in the last week, seen the statistics and I'm not sure what the relationship between seniority is, but per one of the earlier comments, what is does point to the dramatic shift that has occurred in Congress away from the northeast. And the person who talked about the tragedy of losing representation in Connecticut, irrespective of partisanship, that the dollars we have lost since the shift of representation to the Texas's and the Florida's of the world have been dramatic.   LORI PELLETIER: Thank you, Senator. Thank you, committee.   REP. LYONS: Thank you.    William Cutler to be followed by Mike Zelasky.   WILLIAM CUTLER: Thank you very much. Welcome to eastern Connecticut. My name is Bill Cutler. I represent a somewhat different constituency, a small group of independent voters. They are there and they are important cogs in the government in this area.   Welcome to eastern Connecticut. We all know why we're here and many thanks to all of you for your willingness and your time to hear our concerns. I've been fortunate, we've all been fortunate this evening in having absolutely superb presentations of the facts and I will not repeat those.   I will, however, submit a statement for the record that lays out many of the matters that you've already heard.   I think we've got to take a good look at what we have. We talk about the sprawling district. But it's an increasingly cohesive unit. We have two spines, I-395 and the Connecticut River and two cross ties in I-84 and the upcoming Route 11.   We are growing together. Yes, I know, Route 11, yes. Alright. Maybe. But the point is --   SEN. DELUCA: Faith will win. Faith will win.   WILLIAM CUTLER: It is coming together and it does represent, though, a common frame of mind across the district. And we've got to look and see how people in the district describes themselves. When you're away from home and are asked, where are you from, the answer is probably going to include eastern Connecticut.    We are eastern Connecticut. We can grow some and still be eastern Connecticut. We have 133,000 people to add to this district to make it in equalization.    What can we do to preserve our identity? We're hear to speak this evening on reasons, but since we can't vote directly on the question, the citizens of this district have got to put pressure on their local legislators and on our dear friends who have come to us this evening, the Reapportionment Committee.   Let this be a demonstration of the effectiveness of our legislators. In the halls of Hartford, tell them that you really want the 2nd District to continue doing its job.    Now is the time for action. We are from, we are in, and we are eastern Connecticut.   Thank you, Madam Chairman. Thank you, members. I appreciate your time.   REP. LYONS: Thank you, sir.    Mike Zelasky to be followed by Dennison Allen.   MICHAEL ZELASKY: Hi. My name is Mike Zelasky.   REP. LYONS: Hi.   MICHAEL ZELASKY: I'm here to give you a three minute break from the discussions on the Congressional Districts.   I'm from the Town of Lisbon. I'm the Chairman of the Board of Finance and I'm here with three other town officials, Betsy Barrett, the Town Clerk, Ivy Mather, the Democratic Registrar of Voters, and Mary Grant, the Republican Registrar of Voters.   We are a town of 4,000. We are a small town and we are divided into two House districts, the 47th and the 45th. We have about 60% of our town in the 45th and 40% in the 47th.   I'm here to advocate for one district. The Board of Selectmen, a few months ago, had voted on this and had sent letters, I believe, to your committee or to others who could advocate on their part to be put into one district.    I understand that there's a state statute where you need to try to keep towns intact into one district for the State House and the State Senate and we realize that sometimes you can't do that, given that you have to get the exact same even representation across districts.   But we've had our turn to be split and we would like to be put back together.   Obvious problems are there's a financial burden that we have two polling places. Again, we're a small town with a small budget and this is hard to afford.   There are a lot of logistic problems to deal with, with having two polling places. And there's a lot of confusion among voters, having to send them to the next place.    Also, there's the fact of just representation. When you only have about 1,400 or even 1,100 voters in one of your districts competing against another 15,000 voters that are in that district as well, it's hard to grab the attention of the candidate with any profits. It's hard to grab the attention of the State Representative because they are pushed for time and when it comes down to it, they will go to the larger towns.   So, we would very much like to be put into the same district and we would like to ask you to do that.    As far as which district, we would like to remain rural. We would like to remain with small towns. We would love to remain with Griswold and Voluntown and that would be the 45th district.    Thank you very much.   REP. LYONS: Thank you, sir.   Dennison Allen, to be followed by Roberta Dwyer.   DENNISON ALLEN: Good evening.   REP. LYONS: Good evening.   DENNISON ALLEN: Welcome to Norwich and thanks for coming and thank you for the time you're putting forth to listen to all of our comments.   I'm from Sprague and I guess I represent me. And I agree with what's been said. I just want to reiterate that this is a very special district. We're made up of small towns, mostly - many of them are old mill towns and the mills are gone and they're struggling to figure out how to pay bills.  We're made up by farmers, all kinds of farmers. We're made up by people who have worked the sea, the fishermen and the lobstermen and so on.    We have two casinos and it looks like a third one on the way. We have our small cities and our larger cities.    We are a very much different dimension than any place else in this State. And I guess what I would ask of you, as you look at this redistricting, that you take what this district is and the way it's made up and bring in those that are necessary to keep it the way it is. We're spread out, there's no question. And we cover a lot of ground. But we are one.    And I thank you for your time.   REP. LYONS: Thank you, sir.   Roberta Dwyer, then Gordon Hansen.   ROBERTA DWYER: I was tempted, in a moment of mercy to say ditto and walk out, but I'm taking my three minutes.   I'm here on behalf of the Northeast Alliance. We are a small 501C3 economic development group located in Willimantic, Connecticut. However, we cover the 21 town district of the northeast corner, the quiet corner, the forgotten corner, our corner. And I have a letter from the Board of Directors, which I will leave with you, along with a list of my Board of Directors, but they did ask me to read it.   "The Board of Directors of the Northeast Alliance would like to go in record as being strongly opposed to any redistricting plan that would eliminate or drastically alter the boundaries of Connecticut's 2nd Congressional District.    As a small 501C3 economic development corporation with a board made up of local community leaders, educators, and business people who are personally involved in the northeast corner and its 21 towns, we are very aware of the uniqueness of our east of the River communities.    The challenges of transportation, conservation, education, economic development, land preservation, health care, and social service delivery, in addition to the Indian tribal issues are very different from those encountered in Connecticut's more urban areas.   There is a distinct need for advocates who can clearly and unequivocally represent the concerns of these communities.   We ask that you, the Reapportionment Committee, set a redistricting plan that will support the eastern portion of the State and build on the specific communities of interest that already exist within the towns of the 2nd District.   This can only strengthen our resources, rather than diluting them.    Thank you for your consideration."   Thank you.   REP. LYONS: Thank you, Madam.    ROBERTA DWYER: I bet you've still got a minute and one-half.    REP. LYONS: Thank you.    Gordon Hansen, to be followed by Eileen Beller.   GORDON HANSEN: My name is Gordon Hansen from the Town of Hampton, not Hamden, not East Hampton, Hampton.  I'm the Chair of the Republican Town Committee. Our First Selectman, Walt Stone, is also here. I'm the school board. I'm on the newspaper board and when there are only 1,700 people in town, everybody has a lot of jobs.   I thank you for the opportunity to speak on the issue before us. This is a numbers game. So, I want to look at the numbers.    In the ten year period between (inaudible) samplings and towns, 18 towns in the 2nd Congressional District lost population, but 36 towns increased. Overall, the populous in this district has grown by over 3%.   At the same time, Hartford lost 13%. As a matter of fact, Connecticut's loss of representation lies at the feet of the big cities, Bridgeport, New Britain, Hartford, New Haven, and others. Never mind the percentages. We're talking about a loss of big population numbers in those cities.   On that basis, the idea of awarding the northern half of the 2nd Congressional District to the 1st anchored in Hartford, is to say that to the loser goes the spoils.   As to the premise that the southern half of our district could be thrown to the Haven's forming a shoreline district, that concept falls somewhere between lunatic and preposterous.   The fact that only 8 of 27 towns in the southern half of the 2nd Congressional District are on the shore, exposes this proposal for what it is, desperate. If a shoreline district is viable because these towns have so much in common, based on that single fact, then fine. There are 23 Connecticut towns bordering on Long Island Sound. Let's have a real shoreline district from Greenwich to Stonington. Rob Simmons lives in Stonington, he's a sailor. Perhaps we could squeeze a houseboat into the budget and Rob could represent those towns in appropriate style.   Well, I'm saying that that sounds silly, possibly and you're applauding. Sounds silly? Stupid? Well, absolutely. Thereby, placing this idea firmly in the center in other rationales being proposed.    I will close by addressing the most upsetting aspect of this numbers games and it's been mentioned before.    With eight members assigned to the Reapportionment Committee, not a single one is from any of the 54 towns in the 2nd Congressional District. Now maybe you're tired of hearing that, but you should be standing where I am and you'd be too angry to be tired. One hundred fifteen towns and cities are represented by eight people. Fifty-four towns are represented by no one. And now I'm given to understand that some committee members are concerned, disappointed, if you will, regarding the small number of letters you have received from this area addressing the issue.   Well, there was an article by a guy by the name of Gordon Hansen that will (inaudible) chronicle community voice column on Monday of this week and on the following day, there was a letter signed by nine people from Hampton urging that the 2nd Congressional District be left intact. Those nine people, by the way, were from our Democratic Town Committee.   I'm holding letters in my hand here signed by an additional 21 people from the same little town, which is home to barely 1,000 registered voters, but don't expect a lot of letters and don't make a judgment based on those numbers. Think about the message you sent when you didn't have the political awareness to have us represented on this committee.   We feel you stacked the deck against us, frankly. Many people feel powerless and that the process, as set up, boils down to legislation without representation. But looking at this packed house should make everyone feel better. It certainly makes me feel better. We will be heard.   Thank you.   REP. LYONS: Thank you.   Eileen Ballel. Eileen Ballel. Am I saying it right, B-A-L-L-E-L? Then Demitri. Demitri -- I'm going to say it wrong. Tolchinski. Patricia McCarthy. Bob Price. Mary Ellen Klinck.    MARY ELLEN KLINCK: Good evening. I know many of you on this committee either when I was the former Commission on Aging and then worked on the Environment Committee, as well.   But I am here today as Chairman of the Middlesex County Chamber of Commerce. My name is Mary Ellen Klinck.   Excuse my voice, but I sort of lost it this morning. I'm trying to gain it back to speak tonight.   Thank you all for the opportunity to allow me to comment on the new legislative districts and redistricting. First of all, in regard to what the man from Hampton said, when I saw that there was nobody from the 2nd Congressional District on this committee, I automatically assumed that we were staying intact and that's why you don't have anybody up there representing us. So I hope that is the truth.   At a recent meeting of the Board of Directors of the Middlesex County Chamber of Commerce, which is located in Middletown, and we do think we are in eastern Connecticut, even though we're in Middletown, we are part of eastern Connecticut, the Board unanimously voted to support the preservation of Connecticut's 2nd Congressional District, expanding its boundaries only as necessary to accommodate the Congressional Redistricting Plan.    The 2nd Congressional District currently is comprised of small cities and towns, as you've heard over and over. The unique challenges facing small cities and towns, such as job creation, economic development, education, health care, transportation, social service delivery are often very different from the State's urban centers.   It is vitally important that the 2nd Congressional District continue to serve the needs of its small cities and towns.   The only viable way, in our opinion, to expand the current district would be to move the existing western borders further to the west.    We looked at several options that would add the necessary population to the 2nd District and we're going to mention some of them. We did say, look at the population in these towns and if they were added and we stayed intact, we would meet the goal of that population.   Towns added could include a combination of the following. Somers, Bolton and Andover from northern Connecticut; Hebron, Marlborough, East Hampton, Berlin, Portland, Cromwell, Middlefield, and Durham from central Connecticut; Killingworth, Clinton, Madison, and Guilford from southern Connecticut.    A combination of these towns and cities would keep the small city and small town characteristics of the existing 2nd Congressional District while adding the required population.    The Middlesex County Chamber of Commerce, representing over 2,100 member businesses, employing over 49,000 people, strongly urges the Reapportionment Committee to preserve the 2nd Congressional District.   I just want to say one thing as a former Commissioner on Aging and advocate for the elderly. I think I can speak also for the elderly that the social service delivery, including transportation and health care could be really greatly harmful to the seniors if we had to disrupt the 2nd District.   Also, as the Town Chairman of East Haddam, the East Haddam Democratic Town Committee actually adopted the Middlesex County Chamber's position.   Thank you very much and I hope that when you go back you'll listen and remember all these people in this room that came here tonight because I think we'll probably have the largest showing and all your districts could be right here.   REP. LYONS: Representative Ward has a question.   MARY ELLEN KLINCK: Thank you.   REP. WARD: So that you and some other folks know, and although I live in the 3rd, you mentioned a couple of towns that touch upon my district. Durham used to be in the 2nd. I live a couple of miles from there. So some of us aren't very far from the 2nd District, although presently in the 3rd, border the 2nd District town prior to the last redistricting and I think you meant Killingworth. And I would just also share that the high school that's in the town that I live in participates in sports activities with many 2nd Congressional District towns.    So, some of us in this area spend a fair amount of time in the 2nd District.    MARY ELLEN KLINCK: And that's exactly why we thought of you because you're so close to us and we need you.   REP. WARD: Quick on your feet, as always, Commissioner.   MARY ELLEN KLINCK: Thank you.   SEN. DELUCA: Next is Janet Anderson to be followed by Barbara Klare. Is Janet Anderson here?   JANET ANDERSON: Thank you. I'm Janet Anderson. I'm the co-chair of the Eastford Democratic Town Committee.  Representative Rob Simmons was quoted as saying that this needs to be a bipartisan issue and I totally agree with that.   Eastern Connecticut often feels forgotten. Maybe it is forgotten sometimes. And as an example of that, I would like to point out that neither Eastford nor Norwich are listed in the Hartford Courant's website under towns. And I could not find a listing of this event in today's Courant.    Small towns in eastern Connecticut do have unique problems, as everyone has pointed out and I'm sure you are aware of. Everyone that I have talked to is afraid of being lumped into a district with Hartford. We feel that we will be overlooked, that many of our unique problems and challenges will not be met. Small towns that have a mil rate of maybe -- or have a -- our mil rate is high and one mil is about $50,000, $60,000. So mandates come in from Hartford and we find it very difficult sometimes to fund them.   And we feel that the larger cities don't always appreciate these problems and we would be, again as everyone has mentioned, just lost in the shuffle.   Thank you very much.   SEN. DELUCA: Thank you.    Next is Barbara Klare to be followed by Robert Parker.   BARBARA KLARE: Good evening. My name is Barbara Klare. I am not an official, but I am from the same town, tiny town of Eastford in northeast Connecticut.   You have heard it all tonight. You know that we desperately want to stay as a unique section of Connecticut and to prove it, I have brought you all a piece of our rural nature, the hay seed from northeast Connecticut. Please keep us together.   SEN. DELUCA: Thank you.   Robert Parker to be followed by Ed Seder.   ROBERT PARKER: Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. I'm Bob Parker. I'm also from Eastford, Connecticut.    I will not go through the fact that there are boundaries of Massachusetts and Rhode Island, but limit things on two edges and I will not talk about I-395.   What I would commend to you is that Norwich, where we are now, is the logical and practical center of our region. It's the only one that makes sense.   Other people have spoken about not being tied in with Hartford. If the shoe were on the other foot and Hartford, east of the River, was to be assigned to our district, I think that would be equally unfortunate. We have a diversity of interests, diversity of population, and there's no mix.   We have some other problems. Eastern Connecticut pretty much serves as a money pump for you folks. A lot of money goes out. I think it was mentioned that Connecticut pays more money to the federal government than is returned to it. I have a suspicion that eastern Connecticut pays more money to the State than it gets back. I haven't noticed any Adriaen's Landings on (inaudible) River.    To be formally associated with non-viable urban areas would be absolutely fatal to us. That would put the fox in charge of the chickens.   I think the only defense for our situation is to have a viable 2nd District that at national level congressional representation, overlooks the State's activities done by federal allocation of monies, putting things into code of federal regulations and by presenting individual bills in Congress.   I've also heard a rumor that the 2nd region might be split - the 2nd District might be split and add to separate pieces. To have it not geographically contiguous would not serve the interest of the Representative in terms of travel time, if that is indeed true and it would also look a lot like jury meandering and be, I'm sure, immediately subject to scrutiny of the courts.   Essentially, destruction of the 2nd District would turn eastern Connecticut into dog patch. And I think that would be terribly unfortunate.   Thank you very much.   SEN. DELUCA: Thank you. Mr. Parker, a question. Senator Sullivan has a question of you.   ROBERT PARKER: Yes, sir.   SEN. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Senator. You used two phrases and I'm curious to understand them.   One was "non-viable urban centers". Could you tell me what a non-viable urban center is?   ROBERT PARKER: Oh yes, sir, I'd be glad to. At one time, Rome was the headquarters of the Roman Empire. Now, it's a city. It changed.    At one time, Hartford was a massive manufacturing area and so forth. Then it became a center for paper-pushing, if you will. Insurance business and so forth. And that's not doing too well.   At some point, natural normal changes take place and I don't think that you can, by pumping money into -- again, to go to the Roman example, of bread and circuses, you can push enough money to save something that has not the ability to live on its own as a civic entity, if that makes sense.   SEN. SULLIVAN: So, the City of Hartford would be a non-viable civic urban entity that does not have the ability to continue on its own?    ROBERT PARKER: What would happen, sir, if all state monies and federal monies were withdrawn from that town? I think it would be in difficulty.   SEN. SULLIVAN: I think that would probably be true of a number of communities, both north, south, and east, as well.   ROBERT PARKER: Possibly.   SEN. SULLIVAN: The other thing I was curious about in terms of redistricting, what your comment about who the foxes and the chickens were. With respect to those non-viable urban centers.   ROBERT PARKER: Now, I'm feeling like a chicken. I was pretty much referring to you folks' organization in that --   SEN. SULLIVAN: There was that chapter, I remember, "How to Win Friends".   ROBERT PARKER: I'm smiling. In other words, when you folks have a legislative idea and pass that legislation, and say this is really wonderful and you don't put any money behind it, an unfunded mandate.    Well, that's a problem for me and for these other folks. That increases the rate of taxes on my house and car and dog and every other thing.   SEN. SULLIVAN: I'm more curious, I guess, about the relationship of those observations to the issue of redistricting and the districting of the 2nd Congressional District in particular. That's, I think, where you lost me and I suspect I won't find my way back at this point.    So, I'll go with that.   ROBERT PARKER: I may not either. I was -- just to finish up, I would say that if -- I think the only -- not only you folks, but any legislative body has is the next senior legislative body and the court system. I think that's understood. In other words, if something goes into the federal code and defines what can or cannot be done, well that limits your activities and limits mine and so forth.   So it's really at the federal level because we don't have a tremendous amount of representation. There is no Eastford Senator as such. There's a kind of amorphous district.    SEN. SULLIVAN: Thank you.   ROBERT PARKER: Yes, sir. Thank you.   SEN. DELUCA: Ed Seder to be followed by Carol Pellegrine.   ED SEDER: I think I have to take a different approach. I've listened to all the reasons why the 2nd Congressional District be intact. Let me give you a few facts about the 2nd Congressional District.   I've lived long enough to see all these things happen. At one time, just in Connecticut, we had most of the cotton mills in the eastern or in Connecticut. They are gone. Eastern Connecticut managed. The farmers stayed here and the rural atmosphere stayed here and the beauty stayed here.   That was followed by the woolen mills. Every single town had woolen mills and the people managed. We lost them and the people managed. The rural population stayed here, the farmers stayed here, the cows stayed here too.   As far as the textile finishing plants, practically every town in eastern Connecticut had these shoe mills. They're gone. The public in the 2nd Congressional District, we managed. The rural section still looks good. The farmers still work hard, the cows still remain.   I'm only bringing this out as a reason why the 2nd Congressional District is different than the rest of the State. It just is different.   Now, in order to complete your reorganization of the 2nd Congressional District, the points have been brought out that towns that were in the 2nd Congressional District should be added back to the 2nd Congressional District.   I think it would be the advantage of Connecticut and it would be the advantage of the 2nd Congressional District that you do what the people have said over here.   Thank you.   SEN. DELUCA: Thank you, Ed.   Carol Pellegrine to be followed by Alan Kyle.   CAROL PELLEGRINE: Good evening. Thank you for staying for so long and hearing us all.   I'm Carol Pellegrine. I'm Chairman of the Mansfield Republican Town Committee, another place heard from.   We are the home of the flagship university which has not been mentioned tonight.    On May 17th I sent letters to all of you from our town committee supporting maintaining the 2nd Congressional District. I'm not going to reiterate that at all. There are just a couple of points that I'd like to emphasize with you.   First off is our town committee and I, myself, support a non-political redistricting. I get very upset when I read in the newspaper that Simmons or this one or that one is going to lose their job. This redistricting will most definitely last a lot longer than any incumbent.   So please, look at the numbers and look at what's good for the State of Connecticut, not whose in power or what's in power.   I'm also -- I'm very sorry that this is the only hearing that you are having in our 2nd Congressional District for a couple of reasons.   First, we consider Norwich a city. Where I come from, Mansfield, this is a city. It's not a city to many of you, I'm sure.    Also, it's very easy to get to Norwich from Hartford. Come down Route 2. For those of us who came from other parts of eastern Connecticut we had to meander around some back country roads to get here. If you had had a meeting in Canterbury or Franklin or Pomfret, I wonder if some of you would be at the hearing yet. There's a great deal of meandering in the quiet corner and we tend to think that our communities have a very similar need and interests and we would like to see that maintained.   Thank you.   SEN. DELUCA: Thank you, Carol.    Alan Kyle, to be followed by Beverly Goulet.   ALAN KYLE: Thank you, Senator. I know all of you are very honorable folks from having worked with all of you when I had the honor of being in the House a number of years ago. Welcome to our countryside out here.   About ten years ago I had the opportunity to go into the room in the Capitol where the secret community was housed that was drawing the lines that happened ten years ago. I got a chance to play with that for a little bit. A very interesting experience.    You folks have a very, very difficult task in front of you right now and it would be easy to go into that room with the computer and redraw the lines based on the numbers without any regard to the demographics and the commonality of the people left standing.   Tonight I'm here to say that somebody's ox is going to be gored very soon. And I'm also very, very happy that there has been absolute bipartisan support of people standing up with their arms outstretched, (inaudible) of the tracks, fending off this juggernaut that might gore our favorite ox.   I won't repeat the arguments for keeping the 2nd District intact, but they are manifold and they have been expressed very eloquently.    One person mentioned the need to amplify our voices in Washington. Absolutely true. We're going to lose one Representative there and we do need to amplify those. And I think the best way to amplify that voice is by strictly observing the commonality of the districts that you redraw. And I would submit to you that the commonality exists strongly between the 1st, 3rd, 4th, and 5th districts, much more so than it does between the 2nd and the 6th districts, both of which, are primarily rural.    So I would suggest and passionately request that you carve up one of those districts, gore that ox instead of ours because the commonality would remain of those constituencies and they could reorient themselves with their new representative, probably much easier than we could here, the reason being it is the forgotten corner of the State, as you all know.   So, with that, I did submit some written testimony. I would ask you respectfully please to consider it as you do your deliberations. And good luck, folks. You've got a big, big job to do.   Thank you very much.   SEN. DELUCA: Thank you, sir.   Beverly Goulet, to be followed by Todd Postler.   BEVERLY GOULET: Welcome to eastern Connecticut, committee members and to my hometown.   My name is Bev Goulet and I've been a human services administrator for about 35 years. Half of that time spent in Middletown and half of the time spent here as the Director of Social Services for the City of Norwich.   I want to try to bring your attention to the sensitivity of the years and years that eastern Connecticut has spent developing health and human services programs.    As you can see from tonight, we're a tough ingenious group because we've had to be. Over these many years, I've made many trips to Hartford and many, many trips to Washington to try to keep to understand the special needs of people in the rural and small city towns of eastern Connecticut. And I have to say thank God that we have an incredible group of legislators in eastern Connecticut because I have never once not picked up a phone to call our congressional office or one of our State Senators, legislators and haven't gotten an immediate response.   Often, many, many times when I'm working with my colleagues, and right now for the last several months I've worked on an initiative with Day Kimble Hospital, Backus Hospital and LL&M in a way that we can work together to get more kids on HUSKY and I'll bet there aren't too many regions of this state where you'll find many, many towns working together to try to get health care out to our kids.   But often, as we struggle to get Hartford and Washington to understand the needs of rural towns and small communities, and that what I want to ask you to do is that understand that if you cut this district in half, you're cutting a system of health and human services that's taken years for us to develop.   So we need you to understand that and I want you to know that I would certainly be available to this committee. After many years of working in regional and state systems of care for our seniors and our families, I just want you to understand that and keep that in mind.   And I want to thank all the people I haven't seen for a long time here tonight. It's a great turnout.   Thank you very much.   TODD POSTLER: Good evening, Madam Speaker. My name is Todd Postler. I'm a resident of Norwich and I'm also an alderman for the City of Norwich.   Standing next to me is my father. He's the elder statesman of our small little political dynasty of two. He is the Selectman in the Town of Franklin.   It does my heart good to see you folks up there because normally I'm up there taking the heat from here. So I'm glad you're there and I'm here tonight.   Anyway, we are here to speak on behalf of the issue of the 2nd Congressional District, that we are opposed to splitting up the district and absorbing them into other districts.   Senator Sullivan had made some comments in the paper that I think are most appropriate. I'm going to use your comment, but just make a little change there, if you don't mind, Senator.   You had made a comment that when you're making your decision, you look at population. You mentioned population a couple of times. And then you mention also, community of interest. And I'd like to maybe make a little modification. I'll just say, community of similar interest.   A couple of things I'd like to share with you are some of the interests that we have in eastern Connecticut. One is transportation, Route 395, north and south; Route 2, east and west; Route 32, north and south; Route 12, north and south; and I-95 which goes -- actually it's north and south, but it kind of goes through eastern Connecticut, east and west.   Casino issues; the Heritage Corridor; our business associations that are here tonight and speaking to you; religious associations that are tied together. Also, the public safety issues. I worked for a company that was actually in the fire service and there are many volunteer fire departments and a few of the paid departments that are actually quite tied together, including the public safety of EMS and police departments. Also, tourism.    We're just here tonight to say it's a hard job, we know you'll do a good job. Even though you don't have a representative from this area, I said one thing to my father, I said one thing we won't do is kick the beehive on that one.   So, we wish you well and we look forward to hearing from you again and welcome to Norwich.   Thank you very much.   REP. LYONS: Thank you very much for your testimony.   Stanley Dalrymple to be followed by Bob Walker. Is either gentleman here?    Michael McLaughlin. Michael.   MICHAEL McLAUGHLIN: I guess somebody else put me on the list, but I'll do my best.   I'm Mike McLaughlin. I'm from Waterford and first I'd like to thank Jane Dauphinais for the doctoral thesis. If your report is as good as what she said hour upon hour, we'll be happy in southeastern Connecticut.   But you know, I think it's kind of ironic as I was driving up here, I was thinking that you know, 225 years ago this month, the great British Empire decided, without representation, they were going to change the way some people lived. Okay. And it's kind of ironic that you're here. It's even more ironic that you're here in the home of Benedict Arnold. I don't know if that has anything to do with it.   But what I would like to say is something really positive about the 2nd District because I've lived here all my life. It's one of the unique things that we can have.   We have all kinds of diverse people that you can be and it seems that all the diverse people have some degree of success. We have people who are Indian traditions, have great success. Black people have great success. Hispanics have it. Whites. Asian people. Everything seems to be that one of the keys to this thing is no matter what is done to us, no matter what is done for us, we adapt.   At one time we built submarines. And they took that away from us, to a degree and now we've adapted to become a service area.   At other times we've done other things and now Pfizer has come forth as a global country in our place.   We have Eastern Connecticut State University, another fine institution among our midst, along with UConn. We have all kinds of things. We have the Norwich Navigators and I have one great advantage you don't have. I was watching the baseball game while you guys were sitting up here, it's on the t.v. Okay.   And that was one of the great things that Glenn Carbury brought to here, especially from the Yankees.    I mean, we've done everything we possibly could to get along and we are as common as you can be. We are as diverse as you possibly can be, but we have made a success of everything that we've tried.   Representatives, our Senators on the national and state levels are as excellent as you can get. I know you know them all. They know you. They speak highly of you. It's not an easy job to do.    But I've heard a lot of philosophers mentioned tonight and the thing is, most of them are dead. Okay. So I guess their ideas aren't so hot.   But I'll give you what you know, especially the urban people and the words of the great -- and I'll paraphrase for you. In the words of the great urban philosopher, M.C. Hammer, "Don't touch this."   REP. LYONS: Jim Sullivan to be followed by Steve Spellman.   JIM SULLIVAN: Madam Speaker, members of the committee, I have had the good fortune in my life to get to know most of you on this committee personally. And I know that you have all come to the arena of public service because you care deeply about your community.   I care deeply about my community, deeply enough so that back some years ago, I came to this Chamber where I was fortunate to serve the people of Norwich for two terms as a member of the City Council.    And cared deeply enough about the issues that face the 2nd Congressional District, that earlier this year, I embarked on a campaign to secure the Democratic nomination in the year 2002.    I believe that it would be a tragic mistake for us to consider dividing this district. We simply have too much in common in and amongst the communities of the district and we have too much at stake as we move into the days and years ahead.   I know enough about government and politics to know that this will be a very political process as it moves forward. But I also know that for us here in the 2nd Congressional District, this is an issue that truly does transcend politics. So much so that I was willing, earlier this week, to join with the current Congressman in sending out a joint letter, which I would like to submit this evening for the record and I just want to read just one paragraph from that letter that was signed by Congressman Simmons and myself.   "The 2nd Congressional District seat belongs to the people. And redistricting should be carried out with only their needs in mind. The challenges facing small towns and cities and addressing issues such as job creation, the environment, education, health care, and transportation are very different from the State's urban centers."   Again, I feel it would be a tragedy to consider breaking up the district. I urge you, as you go through your deliberations in the days and the months ahead, to consider our community and keep it as one, as one congressional district.   Thank you.   REP. LYONS: Thank you.    Steve Spellman, to be followed by Anne Angelastro.   STEVEN SPELLMAN: Speaker Lyons and members of the committee, my name is Steven Spellman. I'm a lifelong resident of Stonington and I also had the honor of representing seven of the towns in the 2nd District in the State Senate for three terms.   My ancestors came to eastern Connecticut from Ireland in the late 1800's and at that time, the 2nd Congressional District had existed in essentially its present configuration for over half a century.   Four generations later, the decedents of those ancestors now carry a Italian, Portuguese, Swedish, German, as well as Irish names and the children born of those marriages are raising their own children in the 2nd District.   From the rolling hills of the northeast to the shores from which Connecticut's last commercial fishing fleet sets off, it is an area of unique beauty.    While the textile mills once brought waves of immigrants, the casinos and the tourism industry continue to attract new waves of immigrants.   This area of great beauty is also one which faces economic challenges. The Norwich Bulletin recently carried a story indicating that of the 15 poorest municipalities in the State, seven are cities and eight are towns in the 2nd Congressional District.   The 2nd District is rural in character and a strong hold for that most democratic of institutions, the town meeting.    It is critical that you carry out your duties in a way that preserves this district. Certainly, the results of one election should have little impact on a district which predates the Civil War.   I would like to bring one perspective to this public hearing that has only been briefly touched on and that is to consider how towns associate with each other when government is not mandating how they do that.   There is strong evidence of commonality and interest in high school athletics. The Eastern Connecticut Conference has a long history of bringing together the northern and southern extremes of the 2nd Congressional District. Stonington and Killingly, for example, have a strong rivalry that is longstanding and has induced common respect.   The challenges of the 2nd District in the coming years will include development of a transportation system that addresses increased density and environmental concerns. This should include consideration of a light rail system that could use rights of way existing since trolley cars travelled in the district years ago. It is a district of common bonds, unique needs, and a future that should be planned with a vision that considers its history.   While the district must grow, it is essential that the present longstanding grouping of towns east of the River, which comprise the 2nd Congressional District, be maintained.   Thank you.   REP. LYONS: Thank you.    Anne Angelastro, followed by Chayene Cutler.   ANNE ANGELASTRO: Hi. I'm Anne Angelastro. And I've lived in the 2nd Congressional District for a little over 15 years. To some people here I might be a newcomer and other people who are here have spoken, I might have been here for a long time.   I urge you, as a committee, to leave the 54 towns in the district together as they have been for quite a number of years.    And just having friends and business associates throughout the district, I see that the district composure is working and it works well together.   The rural communities, small towns, and small cities have unique ties that bind them together with similar issues and challenges for the future. These issues are very different from those of the bigger cities of Hartford and New Haven.   Our small towns have voices that are heard now within the district and outside of the district. Those voices, I think, would surely be lost in competition with the goals and needs of larger cities.   So with that, I urge you to consider leaving the 2nd Congressional District's towns intact.   Thank you.   REP. LYONS: Thank you very much.   Chayene Cutler.   CHAYENE CUTLER: Welcome to the beautiful City of Norwich, the southern most point on the Quinnebaug Mashantucket River Valley National Heritage Corridor.    I'm the Executive Director of the Heritage Corridor and I have provided written testimony that speaks to the commonality of our 26 towns and their relationships and I will allow you to read that at your leisure since it's been stated so eloquently by so many people from those individual communities this evening.   I'd like to point out a particular issue that the National Heritage Corridor has. Obviously, we advocate keeping the present 2nd District together, particularly the 26 towns in the National Heritage Corridor.    Congress has authorized us to receive $10 million in funds over the next nine years. As you know, authorization is permission to have the money. It is not the check is in the mail. Our communities are deserving of those resources, the same kind of resources that have been allocated to the other 22 national heritage corridors in other parts of the country. We need to concentrate our efforts to bring those resources to our communities over that period of time.   To have our National Heritage Corridor divided and the attention on that corridor diluted, I think will be a serious detriment and I would urge you to keep our communities and the rest of the 2nd District together.   Thank you.   REP. LYONS: Thank you very much.   Dana Johnson. Dana, followed by Warren -- is it Speh. Is it S-P-E-H? Yes, you can speak, sir. You would be next.   WARREN SPEH: Madam Speaker, distinguished panel members, ladies and gentlemen that remain, this is not a game that was previously mentioned that is played in Washington. This is serious business that is the business of this panel.    This is a bipartisan issue of the people of the 2nd District. This unique group made up of moderately sized cities, rural towns, have specific ideals, specific goals, and specific needs.    To dissolve the 2nd District is not in the best interest of the State, much less the 2nd District. To be absorbed into any of the other five districts would be a disaster to most of the people of this district. In all due respect to John Larson, Rosa DeLauro, Chris Shays, Nancy Johnson, and Jim Maloney, they do not, and in my opinion, will not understand very much that is relative to the 2nd District.   We do not exist in their eyes. As stated before, we are the lone corner. This must not happen. New businesses are populating the area and with it, more people. Population increase, expansion of Pfizer, long existing industries and influx of new business growth. With homes that will bring the population up, you will find yourself changing the district again if you divide it now.   I thank you for your time and good evening.   REP. LYONS: Thank you very much, sir.   James McHutchinson to be followed by W.S. Nelson.   JAMES McHUTCHINSON: Good evening.   REP. LYONS: Good evening.   JAMES McHUTCHINSON: I'm James McHutchinson, a citizen of Haddam Neck which is the Haddam Neck section of the Town of Haddam. We're split by the Connecticut River.   I would like to read this into the record.    "Please do not break up eastern Connecticut's 2nd Congressional District in the process of reapportionment. The 2nd Congressional District, as it was originally conceived, with no north/south division, has served the rural character of our towns well for many, many years. We have more in common with each other than with the larger cities such as Hartford and New Haven.   Our concerns are not the same as the citizens of greater Hartford or greater New Haven. Whether republican or democrat, we are best served by electing our own congressman.    Redistricting is a political process and there are those who would redraw the district for short term political gain. While this sort of thinking make sense in some political back rooms, it gives politics a bad name and disgusts many voters.    In all candor, I am delighted at the work that Rob Simmons has done thus far as the Congressman from eastern Connecticut. Connecticut can be proud of the contribution he makes to United States House of Representatives.    But if he were not there, if has been the case most of my life, my Congressman was from the other party, I would still want him or her chosen from Stafford to Old Saybrook, from Thompson to Stonington by the citizens of eastern Connecticut.   REP. LYONS: Thank you, sir.   W. S. Nelson to be followed by Elizabeth Cartier.   WILL NELSON: Madam Chairman, members of the Board, my name is Will Nelson. I live in the City of Groton and I'm not a politician. I don't plan to be. I've been around Connecticut for 50 years or better and have coffee most every morning and it's just a bunch of old timers getting together and we ask some pretty though provoking questions.   Our first question is, and I'd like to address this to the panel, if I could, please. Why is not the 2nd District represented on this panel that concerns the 2nd District? Can anybody answer that one?   The other thing that's brought up, right now everybody's talking to be split, the 2nd District will be split into the 1st and the 3rd districts and they said, well, why did we break away from England initially? It was taxation without representation.    The boys at the coffee shop do not fail to get representation if we are split into the 1st and 3rd districts.   The question that I want to mention is we formed the 6th district in 1964. If we've got to back to five, why can't we go back to the original five before we formed the sixth?   Thank you very much. We appreciate your time.   REP. LYONS: Thank you, sir. We appreciate your comments.   Elizabeth Cartier to be followed by Joseph Socha. Elizabeth. Then the next gentleman would be Joseph Socha, S-O-C-H-A.   Mark Kitchin. Brian Vachrus.   BRIAN VACHRUS: It's Brian Vachrus.   REP. LYONS: Thank you.   BRIAN VACHRUS: I'd like to answer the question that has been raised by many people here, which is why you are where you are and it's because the State Constitution says that you are the people who are to serve on this panel. So it has nothing to do with the whims of the current legislature except that you're elected as Majority Leader or Minority Leader or whatever. So it's really not their fault that they're there. They're there because the Constitution of the State says that they have to be there and I hope that hasn't taken away from my time to speak.   My name is Brian Vachrus and I appreciate the opportunity to address you, address the Reapportionment Committee. I'm a resident of the Town of Waterford in New London County and last year I was a candidate for State Senate in District 20.   The purpose of my address is to propose that the committee retain the eastern part of Connecticut in a single congressional district. Eastern Connecticut is a contiguous region of smaller towns and cities, which share common interests in their lower population density and they're more rural character. In this way, they're quite different from the rest of the State, which many people have said here tonight.   Tradition and history has kept this region united within a single district.    I'm a professional engineer by training so I'm going to give you some numbers and I'm going to leave this with you so you will have written document.   The 2000 census counted 3,409,535 statewide. And assigned five congressional districts to this State. This comes to 681,907 people per each of five congressional districts, as in the new districts you have to draw.   An examination of the census figures leads to a proposal to create the following 2nd Congressional District, keeping eastern Connecticut intact.    Take the counties of Middlesex, New London, Tolland, and Windham in their entirety. This comes to 659,614 residents. Add the towns of Madison and Marlborough in their entirety for 23,567 additional residents. And a district would be created with a total of 683,181 residents. This district would be within 1,300 residents of an equal size district, a theoretical figure that is practically unattainable.   This would amount to a district within 2/10ths of 1% of an exact division, close enough for federal standards. No town would be divided and the four counties of eastern Connecticut would be kept intact in a single district. This district would be politically competitive for candidates from either major political party.   And I ask you to endorse this plan and thank you for listening. And I'm going to submit this.   REP. LYONS: Thank you, sir, for your comments.   Andy Depta.   ANDY DEPTA: First, I want to thank you for coming to Norwich and allowing us to - and myself, to speak before you.   I'm Andy Depta from the Town of Ledyard. Also, I'm the Republican Town Committee Chairman. So I'm here tonight in a personal capacity, but also as capacity of the Chair of the Ledyard Republican Town Committee and in an non-partisan way.   I speak for all our members and that is to urge you to listen to the voices tonight. I'm not going to give you any eloquent speeches. I don't have anything prepared. But I urge you to listen to the people this evening and keep our 2nd Congressional District essentially intact.   I would like to change the tone slightly, which was brought up earlier by Susan Mendenhall. I'd like to zero in on the 42nd State Legislative District.    I would urge this committee to take an extremely long look at that 42nd district and how it is presently drawn, the lines are drawn, between the Town of Ledyard and slight slice of the Town of Groton and if you look at the map, an appendage that goes into the Town of Montville.   I urge this committee to take a real strong look at that and redraw those lines so that they include full townships, as previously mentioned by Susan Mendenhall.    I support her position. I urge this committee to support her position in taking a very strong look at that.   I will just conclude my remarks, the fact that your job is an extremely complex one. But the message tonight, I believe is a very simple one that you're hearing from the voices and that simply message is, keep the 2nd District intact and go do the right thing.   Thank you very much.   REP. LYONS: Thank you very much, sir.   Stuart Gudbois. Stuart. Please proceed, sir. Followed by Bill Wagner.   STUART GUDBOIS: Good evening. I'm Stuart Gudbois and I farm with my wife and son in Salem. We have 250 cow dairy. So we're interested in agriculture and we're interested in a common commonality of interest and so that we want our communities of interest, as Senator Sullivan has mentioned, and we need to be with a rural group. If we get put in and we want to keep the 2nd District intact because there's a lot of agriculture in New London and Windham and Tolland Counties and the whole eastern half of the State. There's a lot of dairy, as I'm in. There's also a lot of poultry, a lot of nurseries, a lot of different kinds of agriculture.   And we have some specific interests that we need a representative that would be interested in what we have to say. If we get put in with Hartford or New Haven, the votes - we're few in number and the votes there would preclude us from having a good representation.    I support everything that has been said here. There is one comment I would make that I realize I'm not so naive that I don't realize this is a political process, but I would hope that you would make these decisions as was mentioned by one previous speaker, not on the basis of who is currently in the seat, but who they will be representing and who will be of importance to the future.   So with that, I would encourage you to keep the 2nd District intact and thank you for your time.   REP. LYONS: Thank you, sir.   Bill Wagner to be followed by Keith Mosher.   BILL WAGNER: Bill Wagner from Colchester. Formerly Selectman. Colchester, the home of Harry's Hot Dog Stand and the Colchester Bakery.    I'm also here - I talked today to - although I am a republican, I talked to our democratic First Selectman, Jenny Contois, who cannot be here tonight because she had a meeting, but this was bipartisan. We both support this issue of keeping the 2nd Congressional District intact with some additions.   One other point. The gentleman from Hampton stole my thunder. As far as lack of representation on this committee from the 2nd District, and it is almost to the point we're seeing is that maybe the way Hartford feels, okay, about the 2nd District.   Thank you.   REP. LYONS: Keith Mosher to be followed by Joseph Hurley.   KEITH MOSHER: I'm Keith Mosher. I'm the President and Executive Director of the Plainfield Chamber of Commerce.   I have a statement which I would like to leave with you. I don't want to read it to you. We've heard all the same comments.   But the Plainfield Chamber of Commerce does fully endorse the retention of the 2nd Congressional District as it stands with the addition of whatever towns are necessary along the western border to reach the numbers that are required.   I would add that I was born in Hartford, raised in Wethersfield, Greenwich, and Stamford. And after I started raising a family, I have lived in East Lyme, Rockville, Canterbury, Putnam, Coventry. I've worked in Plainfield, Danielson, Canterbury, Willimantic, Mansfield, Waterford, New London, Norwich, and Rockville.   So I'm fairly familiar with the 2nd Congressional District.   REP. LYONS: You get around.   KEITH MOSHER: And there clearly is a common community of interest in this area. And I urge you to just maintain it.   Thank you.   REP. LYONS: Thank you, sir.   Joseph Hurley to be followed by Pat Morianos.   JOSEPH HURLEY: Good evening, Madam Chair and members of the Board. I guess I'm the second whole person to have been here from the Town of Middletown in the far flung northwestern corner of this district.   I was looking, while I was waiting, at the list of population changes. I was an accountant before I went to law school and numbers interest me.   Colchester, +32.5%; East Haddam, +24.8%; Eastford, +23.1%; Pomfret, +22.4%; Scotland, +28.6%. Five of the only twelve towns with over 20% increases in population, they're all in this district.   We moved here, my family, when I was four years old from California because my parents drove to a conference in Maine and drove through Connecticut and wondered what a beautiful state it was compared to the smoggy riverside California we lived in.    And the 2nd District is part of the State that really looks like most people think of when you say New England. Trees, old Congregational churches with white steeples. That's what people think of.    And an urban congress-person from Hartford or New Haven, however well intentioned they may be, I don't think that they really could represent this area the way Mr. Simmons, who is from this area, can do so.   Does anyone really think that that congressman from Hartford or New Haven could continue to maintain an office in Norwich or Middletown, as Mr. Simmons does?   And I want to harken back. In colonial times, colonists complained of representatives in Parliament who were far flung members from far flung areas and let's not return to that. That was not a good thing then and it wouldn't be a good thing now.   And I also think it's bad to decide these things based on statistics. I know a lot of them have been brought up. I quote Mark Twain, a one time resident of our fair state. "There are lies, there are damned lies, and then, my dear Madam, there are statistics."   Finally, I wish to point to one state legislative district issue. I think it would be a good idea to combine Cromwell with the northern part of Middletown, which I live in. I can almost throw a stone into Cromwell from my apartment in the West Lake section.   I shop in Cromwell. I go to the library in Cromwell. I have my clothes dry cleaned in Cromwell. I hardly ever go to Middletown. They have a lot more in common with us in the northwestern part of Middletown and if you need to add towns to make the 2nd District bigger, here's a few towns that I think have more in common with the 2nd District than with the districts they're in.   Meriden, which is in New Haven County for a quirk I don't quite understand and is in that district. Also, Cromwell, which is in Hartford County, but I think is more in common with Middletown.   And I thank you all for your time and I will head home now. It's getting kind of late.   REP. LYONS: Thank you very much.   Pat Morianos to be followed by Joseph Lozier.   PAT MORIANOS: Good evening, members of the panel of maybe I should say good night.   My name is Patricia Morianos and I'm from the Town of Bolton.   My concern is that we have two congressmen who represent our town. I am very, very happy with the representation that I have with Congressman Larson. I think he does a wonderful job. But I would be equally happy if I were put in the 2nd District. I think we should be made whole as a small town for some of the reasons that someone that was up here previously mentioned.   We do have costs when we have elections and so forth to maintain other polling places. And I think with a town of 5,000 we should have one congressman and I think we would have more attention from just one congressman. There's, I believe, 129 households in the 2nd District.   I applaud the people in the 2nd District for coming out here and fighting for what they believe. I think it's not only our right, it is our duty to come here before this panel and tell you how we feel.    I feel that the Town of Bolton should be represented by one congress person and I urge you to use common sense because I believe that's what it takes, is common sense, to make all small towns whole.   I don't think that they should be divided in the way that they are. And I appreciate the task that you have before you. I realize that it's monumental, but I do hope that you do exercise common sense when it comes to these small towns.   Thank you very much.   REP. LYONS: Thank you.   Joseph Lozier to be followed by Joe Courtney. Joseph Lozier? No. Joe Courtney.   JOSEPH COURTNEY: Senator Sullivan, Representative Lyons, members of the committee, thank you for your endurance tonight. And my remarks will be very brief.   I'm a resident of the Town of Vernon and as some of you with very good memories, can recall a former office holder from that community. I'm also a member of the Tolland County Chamber of Commerce and Vice President of the Tolland County Fire Association.   Vernon is, again, tucked up in the northwest corner of the 2nd Congressional District. Some people, like the New London Day, think we're maybe not really part of the 2nd Congressional District, but we also have had a Congressman who came from Vernon, Robert Steele, Representative of the 2nd Congressional District from Vernon. And again, we all feel very much a part of the 2nd Congressional District.   Again, there have been very good comments about the history of the district tonight, the agrarian past of the district.    I'd just like to touch on one point which was alluded to, I believe, Mrs. Pellegrine from Mansfield.   In eastern Connecticut we do have the flagship University of the State of Connecticut. We have one of the four State Universities, Eastern, in eastern Connecticut. We have three out of twelve community colleges in eastern Connecticut. We have a very strong representation of private colleges.   And because I think of that higher education concentration that exists in eastern Connecticut, it is no surprise that when the Rand Corporation did a study of allocation of federal research and development dollars for the State of Connecticut, 40% of those dollars go to eastern Connecticut.   We have defense industry. We have higher education. We have pharmaceutical. Again, there is a synergy that exists right now, which, again is not often talked about or even perceived by many people that exist in eastern Connecticut that not only make our roots strong in the past, but also in the future as far as what kind of economy we're going to have in this portion of Connecticut and for the State as a whole.   And I believe that, in terms of the future, does unify the people of this district in ways that, again, maybe weren't presented tonight.   When I was going through the research of, the OLR research regarding the 1990 reapportionment, I noticed that in the 2nd Congressional District hearing, which was held in New London in 1991, there was a whopping 4 speakers who showed up that evening. The committee was certainly all home in bed by this hour.   I, again, think that all of you have a very difficult task ahead of you. The Connecticut Supreme Court, in Logan vs. O'Neill and Fonfara vs. the Reapportionment Committee has made it very clear that there is wide judicial deference to the decisions that you are going to make and clearly, you are going to be the ones that your colleagues are all going to rely on.   And again, I salute you and wish you good luck in your deliberations and I hope again that you will take to heart the comments that came here from the grass roots all over eastern Connecticut and preserve our district.    Thank you.   REP. LYONS: Thank you very much.    John Mereen, followed by Robert Booth, to be followed by John Burgess. Dan Very.    DAN VERY: Thank you. Very briefly, I'm here --   REP. LYONS: Sir, if you would just state your name, please.   DAN VERY: Dan Very. I'm from the Town of Woodstock.   I'm here to state that as a citizen it is my belief we need to retain as much as the 2nd District as we possibly can.   We know that it is going to change, but I believe too that by adding more towns of a rural character such as we have, it can only improve us.   With the potential of changes within the district, the situations we will be facing in the near future are not anything like the inclusion of a mall or an Adriaen's Landing.   The State of Connecticut has also deemed that the northeast corner is to remain a "green" portion of the State.   This is in reference to the rural landscape in our farming communities. I believe that the State needs to stand behind this commitment to our farmers, their families, and other rural entities and not begin waging a dollar war with the urban communities such as the Hartford area.   Again, I ask that you retain as much, if not all, and add rural areas to the 2nd District.   Thank you.   REP. LYONS: Thank you very much.   Robert Booth.   ROBERT BOOTH: Madam Chairman, members of the panel, I'd just like to briefly mention two aspects that haven't been mentioned so far this evening, if that's possible.   I surf the Internet a lot and there are a couple of Internet sites that deal strictly with government and reapportionment in states. And it was most of the criteria for all the states.   But there are two things that are common on both of those nets that I have noticed in terms of the aspect of reapportionment. One of them was a proportional representation aspect and this has been brought up before where you could actually, with the advent, especially with computers, you could - you wouldn't have to split towns or a representative could be proportioned part of a vote, rather than a full vote.   The other aspect that seems to be prevalent, at least on the Internet cite is racial inequality. And one of the things that occurred to me was if we were part of Hartford and New Haven, I think if there were minority representation in both of those communities, it would certainly be diluted by having the 2nd District split in two and become part of them.   Therefore, I would suggest that we would probably end up with lawsuits of discrimination and jury meandering in diluting the minority representation of both of those cities.   I think one of the things that we just don't have anything in common with, that I can see, is the City of Hartford or New Haven.   Thank you.   REP. LYONS: Thank you, sir.    David Bingham to be followed by Ann Harford and Bill Harford.    DAVID BINGHAM: Thank you for the opportunity. My name is David Bingham. I'm from Salem.   I'm probably one of the few in this room who have actually been in all 54 towns of the current district, as I ran as an independent for Congress in 1994. A close election, as you may recall, decided by two votes.   I learned a great deal about the politics of this district. As I drove here tonight, I got late on the list because I came in on time and those people that had signed up early missed something and what they missed is as you drove into Norwich, early when the sun was still shining this afternoon, and the rain was coming down, there was a beautiful rainbow and the rainbow was coming right down onto this building. And this is a poor district. So on the pot of gold, I have to say, is right around us, right here, the people of this district.   And it's a really truly remarkable district and you've heard from the people was to how we have been joined historically. Eastern Connecticut, this city was once of the largest cities in the United States and it fed all of the northeastern part of the State. They all brought their cows to be sold here and they went out on the docks here down the Thames.   But one of the things that reminded me of as I saw that rainbow, is that every drop of rain that caused that is coming down and as it joins our streams, it's going into the Sound.    We would not be here having any argument if we just did the sensible thing, which is take eastern Connecticut and keep it as a district as it has been for many, many decades in the past.   We're here really because of politics, because we know that there are people who are affected by the political decisions that you will make.   So, since none of you represents eastern Connecticut on your panel, let me tell you, very quickly, a little bit about the politics of eastern Connecticut, which is, this is a very independent district. And if you're going to think that we want to keep the strength of our current people in Congress, and their seniority and you take the 250,000 votes in our district that vote in Congressional elections, and you take half of them and you combine them with Hartford or you combine them with New Haven, I'm not sure you're doing anybody that's a current congress person a favor by taking this district and thinking that these people are going to vote in some kind of a way which they can predict because almost none of them, probably none of the possible candidates have ever been in the 54 towns in this district.   Every drop of rain that lands in Putnam or in Middletown lands in the Long Island Sound and I would like to speak on behalf of mother earth in this.   It makes political sense that the person that's fighting for our water and our air in Congress, if they're trying to help the Sound, that they understand that the sewage system in Plainfield, Putnam, Middletown, all ends up in the Sound and that we don't have Congressmen fighting each other over what is needed to be done when we have somebody who will be fighting for the Sound, but who will also be fighting for sewage overflows in Norwich, Middletown and Putnam which all effect -- we all tie together in eastern Connecticut.   I beg you to keep us as a unified environmental ecological unit. It's not just the economic synergy of eastern Connecticut. It's the ecological synergy. We need a representative that takes the whole Quinnebaug Heritage Corridor, the whole southern title area of the Connecticut River to precious resources for all of Connecticut.   Help us protect them and we can protect them best with one Congressman.   Thank you very much.   REP. LYONS: Thank you.    REP. WARD: Just as a comment. Mr. Bingham indicated he was one of the few people that has visited every town in this. The Chief of Staff of the House Republicans seated in the back of the room, Andrew Norton, I know who is regularly in touch with me about the needs of the Second has also visited and campaigned in every town of this District.   So, there are some other folks who are involved and have done that, as well.   REP. LYONS: Ann Harford and then Bill Harford.   ANN HARFORD: I'm representing Ellington and the reason we stayed so long, we are another one of those northwestern corner border towns. We want to stay with the good guys. We want to stay in the 2nd Congressional District.   We would be happy to have Somers come in with us. We would be happy to have Andover and Columbia, Bolton, those towns.   We have something in common with them and we want to stay there.   REP. LYONS: Thank you. Bill Harford. William Everett. Okay, thank you very much.   Kate Ricci.   DAN CRAIG: (INAUDIBLE - NOT SPEAKING INTO A MICROPHONE)   REP. LYONS: Okay. If you would just please identify yourself.   DAN CRAIG: My name is Dan Craig. I'm from the Town of Deep River and I'm also the Executive Director of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce out of Washington and I run their northeast region office.   I wanted to make a comment of something we heard earlier which was, "This game is played in Washington and it's on seniority."   That is true. The game in Washington is on seniority. If you look at my wife's home state of West Virginia, you can see where seniority happens, the roads, the beautiful roads they all have and all the money Bob Byrd brings there.   But this is Connecticut. This district is based on representation. This state is based on representation, not on seniority.    If you look at the towns in eastern Connecticut, most towns are between 5,000 and 15,000. Our representative is from a town of 17,000. Our former representative is from a town of 2,000. Look at the other representatives in this state. New Haven, Danbury, Hartford, New Britain, Bridgeport. I don't think they can represent eastern Connecticut as well as somebody from the small towns of eastern Connecticut.   I grew up in Wallingford, recently to Deep River a year ago. I thought I was from a small town. Looking at that chart out there, Wallingford is now 43,000. It is the same size as the largest town in eastern Connecticut in the 2nd District.   I learned of new things moving to Deep River that I never thought I would learn about a small town. Tax bases. The taxes going up. Educational systems, regional educational systems. These are things that our representatives in the other parts of the State can't get a feel for like somebody from eastern Connecticut and that's why I believe we should keep this district together and keep it intact the way it presently is.   Thank you.   REP. LYONS: Thank you, sir.   Diana Johnson.    DIANA ATWOOD JOHNSON: Hi. I am Diana Atwood Johnson. I am the Chairman of the Old Lyme Republican Town Committee and the new State Central Committeewoman for the 20th district.   I wanted to strongly support the 2nd District remaining the same and the only sort of new piece I wanted to say that is being a subscriber to the Hartford Courant and a reader of the New Haven Register, I can testify and I know that Congressman Simmons to the fact that they don't cover eastern Connecticut. They don't write about Old Lyme and they don't write about New London and they don't write about Norwich unless there's some scandal or trial that they want to cover. They certainly don't write about our politics and I don't think that would improve if you all decided that we were to be joined up with New Haven and Hartford.   So, I think that's an important part of the political interaction and process. It is coverage which -- I'm sure you all read the paper every morning and it starts the dialogue and if we didn't have that opportunity, we would really be losing our voice to the big cities.   Finally, just on behalf of the 20th District, by my count, our district needs to grow by about 9,500 people. I know that at one time the 20th District included Lyme. I also know that there's a natural affinity with the lower valley towns and Essex would also bring -- those two towns would bring about 8,500 people to the 20th District and we already get along and do things together in politics and I think that would be a welcome change.   Thank you.   REP. LYONS: Thank you very much.   Timothy Hyatt. Helen -- I'm probably going to say this wrong. I'm going to spell it. Yiekancz. And Helen would be followed by William Jenkins.   HELEN PIEKARZ: I'm Helen Piekarz from Colchester, Connecticut and I am concerned about several things, not only in the 2nd District, but our senatorial district and the last time they took us out the 19th and threw us into the 33rd and we don't have anything in common with all those shore towns. We don't even have a beach in Colchester. You can't find any beach except for the tiny little one, the Day Pond and I don't think that matters.   Now, what are they -- our population has increased quite a bit since the last redistricting. I wonder what they're going to do with our House position.   And you know, you can slice and you can add and subtract but I think the important thing is serving the people. And how best are we serving the people of Connecticut by redistricting.   Now, I listened to all these towns where you chop up the town and I think that's terrible. I think some real study should be done and work and it takes a lot of good mathematicians to figure out some of these problems. But I think it's too bad when you chop up the towns and they have representation part here and part there.   Now, another thing I'm - I belong to the Connecticut Nurses Association, of course, and recently we organized our organization along congressional districts. Now, if you take out the 2nd Congressional District, you can imagine what's going to happen to the nursing profession.   So, I hope that you give a lot of thought to what's going to be done and that they people will be served in the best way possible.   REP. LYONS: Thank you very much.   William Jenkins.    WILLIAM JENKINS: Good evening, everyone. I realize this is sort of late at this point.   My name is Bill Jenkins. I'm on the Republican State's (inaudible) from the 35th Senatorial District and I'm first Vice President of Grass Roots East, which is the grass roots east organization of political activists in the 2nd Congressional District.   We had a meeting last night of representatives of our organization and we passed a resolution strongly supporting keeping and maintaining the 2nd Congressional District in its present form. We put that in the mail to you. You all will receive it tomorrow.   One of the things I noticed in the paper as a result of testimony that was given in Waterbury two nights ago, Senator Sullivan was asking people for suggestions on -- again, the 5th District people would like to keep their district. The 2nd Congressional District people would like to keep our district intact also.   What I would like to recommend is going back and looking at the map that we had from 1900 to 1964 when we had five congressional districts and then in the 30's when we had a congressman-at-large.   Looking at that map and I believe Virginia Raymond gave you that map as part of her testimony earlier in the evening, when we had five congressional districts, Danbury was in the 4th with Fairfield County. Waterbury was in what's now the 6th district, basically northwestern Connecticut and Litchfield County. Meriden was in the 3rd Congressional District with the New Haven County towns.   I think that if we use that map as sort of a base line to redesign the congressional districts when we have to go from six to five, that will be a good place to start and if you start with that, you really don't have to alter it a whole lot. Granted, back from 1900 to 1960, you didn't have to go -- you didn't have the population in the districts within 60 people of one another, but based on that map from 60 years ago, I think you could - it will make your job a lot easier.    With respect to the 35th Senatorial District, that has 14 towns. Two of them are not wholly within my district, Ellington and Coventry. I would recommend that you move Coventry to another district, wholly incorporate Ellington in the 35th Senatorial District and possibly remove Brooklyn and put it in the 29th Senatorial District.   Thank you for your time.   REP. LYONS: Thank you, sir.   We have no other individuals who have signed up, so if no one else is seeking to speak at this point, I would declare that the public hearing -- oh, yes sir.   If you would come up to the mic and if you would identify yourself.   WALTER STONE: Walter Stone, First Selectman of the Town of Hampton. I signed, but I know I came in late.   The representative from the Republican Town Committee, from Hampton, he stole the whole show tonight and so I'm just going to present you with the last of what I have prepared and I believe the same thing, stay the way we are, add a few towns to the other side.   This resolution came from the Board of Selectmen meeting. That's why I'm bringing it down to you tonight.   Just a couple of points on it. The Shetucket Heritage Corridor. We've been working with that for so many years and we're just starting construction. What are we spending? Two million on a new tourist site on Exit 100, the last exit you come in from Massachusetts on I-395. I-395 is the only route that splits this whole thing and we all stay together.   I have one other person that brought something to my attention, Mr. Gudbois, the only dairy farmer that spoke here tonight. I was a dairy farmer until six or eight years ago and the Town of Hampton only has 1,700 people. I was the third to the last farm to go out of business, but my farm, I sold the development rights. In the town I'm in, we have 5 x 7 square miles. We have about 20,000 acres in state forests. The farm development rights we've sold four farms for a total of about 800 acres. There is one (inaudible) all in Hampton now. So, it's the one farm instead of three or four of us (inaudible) 75 cows. We have one farm there and that was over 500 head and this area in the Shetucket Heritage Map, if you get that, there's over 400 active farms in this district and that is about one-third of all the farms in the State of Connecticut.   So, I have it in writing, but I wanted to say it.   Thank you very much for having me here.   REP. LYONS: Thank you, sir. We appreciate it. Anyone else? If you would just identify yourself.   ROBIN CHESMER: I'm Robin Chesmer. I signed up on the list behind Walter. So I don't know where the list went.    REP. LYONS: Oh, you must have missed your turn.    ROBIN CHESMER: I'm a dairy farmer from Lebanon. I operate Graywall Farms. I guess I'm one of those hay seeds that makes eastern Connecticut unique.    Agriculture has a strong presence in eastern Connecticut from north to the south, from east to the west.   And quite frankly, we need all the good representation we can get to help us with the challenges and the issues that face agriculture in Connecticut.   So, I urge you to keep the 2nd District intact. Thanks.   REP. LYONS: Thank you, sir, for your comments.   Yes, sir.   JIM THEVENETT: Ladies and gentlemen, good evening. My name is Jim Thevenett and I live in Voluntown, Connecticut. And we're not all really hay seeds. I had the change to live around the world. I've lived in London. I've lived in Tokyo. I've lived in Hong Kong. I've lived in Singapore. And I chose to come back to this country and live in Connecticut and this is where my family's roots are from.   And I married a woman from San Francisco and brought her here. I have two children. Now our town is two-thirds state forest, Naugachaug State Forest. It's a very, very small and rural town. We have 2,200 souls that live in our town.   It's very different than the urban areas that you're proposing that we be affiliated with and I wanted to give you a clear example of that.   In our town, our Board of Education -- I skipped the meeting tonight -- our budget is $4.4 million. Our general government budget is $1.6 million. We have a volunteer ambulance and fire service. If we had to have a paid service, that would cost us $2.4 million and would increase our mil rate by about 24 mils and virtually double our local town property taxes.   I don't believe that a federal representative whose primarily interested in serving an urban area is going to be an effective voice for us, for a small community like ours and for a lot of the other communities in our area. And I understand this is about politics. I work with Jim Sullivan who is running for the Democratic nomination and I campaigned for Rob Simmons.   Politics is about money, influence and power. Representation is about commonality and community. I hope that when you decide to make your decision, that you keep our district intact.   Thank you very much. Good night.   REP. LYONS: Thank you, sir.    RANDOLPH BLACKMER: Good evening. My name is Randolph Blackmer. I'm from Thompson and I would also urge you to keep the 2nd District intact.    As President of the Connecticut Farm Bureau, I've had the opportunity to testify at various hearings before you and sit in and listen to the testimony given on various bills and issues. And I would just like to reiterate that the concerns of municipal areas are substantially different than the rural areas and for those reasons, I feel that the importance of maintaining the 2nd District as intact as possible.   As an aside, I have a private pilot's license and have had the opportunity to fly over Connecticut at different altitudes than those on airlines. And I would suggest to you that you might consider, if you have to adjust areas in the districts, which you will have to if you're going to make six into five, that commonalities of the rural areas would be more appropriate together than splitting or diluting the urban area - the rural areas with the urban areas.   Thank you.   REP. LYONS: Thank you very much, sir.   Is there anyone else who would like to make a statement or a comment?   If not, then I would declare that the public hearing is closed. And thank you all for your attendance.       (Whereupon, the public hearing was adjourned.)

 

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